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Thread: Anyone go to Drummond Jeep Jamboree?

  1. #1
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    I heard that the DNR was out in force for the Jeep Jamboree on Drummond Island and wrote at least one $1500 ticket (for the stairs at Marblehead).

    Any word on this?

  2. #2

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jeeperz&#045;Creeperz &#064; Jun 26 2007, 05&#58;02 PM) [snapback]26362[/snapback]</div>
    I heard that the DNR was out in force for the Jeep Jamboree on Drummond Island and wrote at least one &#036;1500 ticket (for the stairs at Marblehead).

    Any word on this?
    [/b]
    Here&#39;s the abridged version of what happened (you don&#39;t even WANT to see the unabridged version&#33;&#33;&#33: The DNR was out at the Marble Head steps on Saturday June 16 when one of the Jamboree groups was going up and down the steps. Even though we had a bonafide event permit, with GPS generated maps, for some reason the CO on site felt compelled to write a ticket to our group leader for operating an ORV in an illegal area (or manner). The CO that wrote the ticket essentially ignored our permit when it was presented to him, indicating that he was observing what he felt was illegal activity and was going to cite accordingly. He was initially going to cite every person on the steps, however, the Jeep Jamboree trail guide noted that those (paying) participants were there because of his direction, and fortunately only one ticket was issued. The one (only) point the CO kept trying to hang his hat on was that these are &#39;forest roads&#39; and therefore have to be able to be driven in 2WD. For the record, this was a misdemeanor ticket (way serious), not a civil infraction, and I do not know what the fine is for this, but I&#39;ve heard numbers ranging from &#036;1,500 to &#036;70.

    We appealed this action to the appropriate DNR authorities in Sault Ste. Marie based on a number of facts, the most important being we had an officially endorsed permit to be exactly at that point. It appears at this point that the ticket is going to be reversed, although official word to this action has not happened yet.

    For the record, Jeep Jamboree goes out of their way to tread lightly, do EVERYTHING by the book, and operate well within the confines of our permits. In fact, on that particular day&#39;s runs, we felt one of the trails was getting a little too much use and we actually pulled it from our event routing for that day. In addition, the Jeep Jamboree gets 30 to 40 first timers every year, and we (I&#39;m not afraid to say&#33 do an excellent job of breaking them into the sport correctly.

    My personal disappointment comes from the fact that as the local coordinator for the Drummond Jeep Jamboree and as a member of GLFWDA, we&#39;re trying to build bridges with the DNR and local communities for our sport, and actions such as this tend to build walls between the very organizations that need to work together.

    My Jamboree staff and myself go way out of our way to ensure that our event is done by the book. I personally worked literally months with the DNR to get our permit approved, and made sure that every member of my staff knew the permit, its limitations and provisions, and knew the ORV rules. It was truly frustrating, then, for a CO show up and issue a citation when we&#39;re doing exactly what we&#39;ve done the last 15 years, with a bonafide permit, at the same place where 3 other COs actually watched us go up and down the steps last year.

    It&#39;s important to note in this episode that the DNR forest managers were totally on our side. They issued our permits to us (after signoffs from 4 other DNR department heads, including Law Enforcement), and were as upset as we were when the CO wrote a citation for what should have been a perfectly legal activity.

    As of this point I cannot say if the steps are open or not. In the opinion of some people within the DNR there&#39;s absolutely no problem with running them, with others, apparently (at times?) there is. I suppose that if you could go up and down the steps in 2WD you&#39;re probably legal&#33;&#33; Although we didn&#39;t make a big deal of it, that&#39;s exactly what my trail guide did after the ticket was written - popped his TJ on 33&#39;s into 2WD and crawled up the steps.

    I do know that I&#39;ll be working with the GLFWDA Land Use Committee extensively to resolve these issues once and for all. And I urge anyone reading this post to absolutely get involved in the process, get people into organizations such as GLFWDA, and get active politically. Or the only place we&#39;ll be able to wheel pretty soon will be private parks.

    And don&#39;t forget that not everyone in the DNR is our enemy. In fact, I don&#39;t look at any of them as our enemy - just a few who need attitude adjustments and a new perspective on what public land is all about.

    Mike Olmstead
    Local Coordinator - Drummond Island Jeep Jamboree
    GLFWDA Land Use Committee member



    '78 CJ7, AMC 360, T18, Dana 20 w/Tera Low gears, Locked Dana 44's F&R, AJ's Tub, Matkin frame.

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    free market capitalist timbercruiser's Avatar
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    Good for you Mike.

    I can&#39;t figure the DNR out. They cut timber like timber barons of old, but if you want to drive on it, its like the Sierra club.
    93 FZJ 80 Locked!!


    Chainsaws don't kill trees, I DO!!

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hunter4x4 &#064; Jun 27 2007, 10&#58;07 AM) [snapback]26377[/snapback]</div>
    It&#39;s important to note in this episode that the DNR forest managers were totally on our side. They issued our permits to us (after signoffs from 4 other DNR department heads, including Law Enforcement), and were as upset as we were when the CO wrote a citation for what should have been a perfectly legal activity.[/b]
    I see that as one of the biggest problems with the DNR. There is no standard of enforcement. Each officer can interpret the laws any way they wish.

  5. #5

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    These are the stories that take all the fun out of hitting the trails. Takes all the fun out when you have to sit there and wonder if you are doing something wrong or not, even when 100% to your knowledge everything is good and legal.

    I wonder what the rule is about vehicles that are full time 4 wheel drive (more or less)?

    I need to understand the DNR trail rules better&#33; If possible&#33;


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    Vertically Challenged 4x4 GLFWDA Member phittie1100's Avatar
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    My concern is for the other groups, families and clubs who may be planning to travel to DI this summer. Even if Law Enforcement Division concedes that the ticket was issued in error IN THIS ONE CASE, what about a family trekking out to Marblehead on a sunny Sunday afternoon? Or a handful of RAV4 owners who met on some random website and are traveling together? This has always been an allowed place to travel in the past, who/what/why is changing the rules and when are they going to tell the rest of us??

    Thanks for the update, Mike.
    Paul - 2005 Wrangler Unlimited
    KD8PAV

  7. #7

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(phittie1100 &#064; Jun 27 2007, 05&#58;24 PM) [snapback]26392[/snapback]</div>
    My concern is for the other groups, families and clubs who may be planning to travel to DI this summer. Even if Law Enforcement Division concedes that the ticket was issued in error IN THIS ONE CASE, what about a family trekking out to Marblehead on a sunny Sunday afternoon? Or a handful of RAV4 owners who met on some random website and are traveling together? This has always been an allowed place to travel in the past, who/what/why is changing the rules and when are they going to tell the rest of us??

    Thanks for the update, Mike.
    [/b]
    Carl brings up an interesting point&#33;&#33;

    My daughter Kim who was up there with me with her daily driver &#39;94 ZJ w/ quadratrac (fulltime 4wd) and her YJ, and I of course had my 78 CJ. However, we did a lot of the lite trail running in Kim&#39;s ZJ (3" lift, 31" BFG ATs) - and that was a GREAT ride for my &#39;local coordinator&#39; duties. And we discussed that exact same question - what&#39;s a CO gonna do if he tells me I gotta be in 2wd?&#33;&#33;??

    Here&#39;s two thoughts on that:

    1) I really believe a lot of these young COs wouldn&#39;t know the difference. More on that when we&#39;re alone&#33;
    2) And the law says a forest road has to be able to be traveled in 2wd - not that you HAVE to use 2wd. And this is another falacy with that rule: we all know that a vehicle going along in 4wd has less impact on the trails than a 2wd vehicle.

    Oh oh - I&#39;m getting wound up a little - better go. Be back later&#33;&#33;&#33;

    Mike
    '78 CJ7, AMC 360, T18, Dana 20 w/Tera Low gears, Locked Dana 44's F&R, AJ's Tub, Matkin frame.

  8. #8
    welfare wheeler GLFWDA Member joe_jeep's Avatar
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    dont suppose you would wanna let us know the co&#39;s name would ya?

  9. #9

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(joe_jeep &#064; Jun 27 2007, 06&#58;03 PM) [snapback]26396[/snapback]</div>
    dont suppose you would wanna let us know the co&#39;s name would ya?
    [/b]
    That definitely would not be appropriate in a public forum such as this for several reasons.

    First, best case scenario, the CO made an honest mistake and I do not want to cause any undue embarrasment. Worse case scenario, it was a willful malicious act (which I&#39;m sure it wasn&#39;t) and then we have another whole set of issues where public disclosure of the name would be totally unwarranted. The fact is that this action was probalby somewhere in between the two extremes, and we consider the CO who wrote the ticket as part of the system we&#39;re trying to fix, not spotlight one individual who had to make an on-the-spot call (right or wrong).

    Second, we&#39;re trying to build fences with all departments within the DNR, and naming names serves no useful purpose except to build animosity towards the user community (us&#33. We want to work with the DNR to resolve these issues and keep our trails open, not build our own set of fences on one side of an impassable moat with their fences on the other side.

    Mike
    '78 CJ7, AMC 360, T18, Dana 20 w/Tera Low gears, Locked Dana 44's F&R, AJ's Tub, Matkin frame.

  10. #10
    GLFWDA Member GLFWDA Member Trail_Fanatic's Avatar
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    Way to keep a cool head, Mike.

    It couldn&#39;t have happened to a nicer guy.

    Glad you&#39;re handling it.

    Keep us informed and let us know if there&#39;s anything we can do for you.
    Pat Brower

    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

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