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Thread: Recap of April 8th MSTAC Meeting

  1. #1
    GLFWDA Member GLFWDA Member TWEAK's Avatar
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    Default Recap of April 8th MSTAC Meeting

    A few representatives from GLFWDA were in attendance of the MSTAC (Michigan Snowmobile & Trail Advisory Council) meeting held on 4/8/2014 at the RAM center. Here is a recap of what was discussed at the meeting:

    New Committee Members Announced
    Three new members of MSTAC were introduced who were all filling vacant positions on the board. The new members are Jason Rolling, Timothy Kobasic, and Drew YoungDyke. Jason’s and Drew each fill a spot on the board for the “Non-Motorized” roles and Timothy fills a “motorized” role.

    Update on Revised Event Permit Policy (i.e. SB50)
    One of the main things we were in attendance for today was to participate in the discussion regarding the new Event Permit guidelines mandated by SB50 that passed in September 2013. The Good & Bad news is that there still is nothing official in place after the presentation today. Jason Fleming from the Parks & Rec division of the DNR was slated to present but was not present. The MSTAC committee was blindsided by what the DNR was presenting and asked the department to go back and present it to the SAW (Snowmobile Advisory Workgroup) and the ORVAW (ORV Advisory Workgroup). Then bring it back to the next MSTAC meeting in July.

    Here is basically what the department was proposing:
    • Any group over 20 USERS would be required to notify the department. The department would review to make sure that there were no other conflicts in the area as well as validate that a permit would not be needed.
    o A permit would be required in the following scenarios:
     Special Signage was required
     Potential for Resource Damage
     Department participation was required during the event
     A Fee or Donation is charged

    It was good to see that the permit policy that was presented was not implemented and will go through further review. The ORVAW meeting will be on May 7th in Lansing at 6:30pm… this topic will be reviewed more in depth at that time. The Great Lakes Four Wheel Drive Association Land Use Committee is currently looking at additional actions to make sure that this is implemented as written into law and in a timely manner.

    Review of Trails Summit
    The MSTAC Committee attended the Trails Summit meeting back in January and there was further discussion about how the meeting went. Although there was positive feedback about getting the various groups together, a few issues from the event were brought up. One of the issues was the lack of a “ORV” breakout session as there were only sessions for Snowmobile and Summer/Winter Non-motorized. Additionally much of the discussions that were supposed to be captured during the breakout sessions never made it into the final report. The MSTAC committee requested of the MPRA who hosted the event to go back and provide all the information that was collected.

    Tourism Conference Update
    Jim Radabaugh, head of the DNR Park & Rec division, provided an update from the Tourism conference that he added in January. Much of the “Pure Michigan” marketing is now being targeted to China due to a growing middle class in that area. Jim also reported that there is a new emphasis on growing the bicycle tourism in Michigan and that there are a few programs underway right now to collect, grow and market the bicycling opportunities within the state.

    Trail Bills Update
    Recently a few new bills were introduced that focus on helping to further promote Michigan as a trail state. These bills are “tie bar” with each other: SB0873, SB0874,SB0875, SB0876. These bills do things like Rebrand the MSTAC group to the “Michigan Trails Advisory Council” and other rebranding types of activities. Additionally this would bring in new trail types such as a “Water Trail.

    Discussion about Accessibility Concerns
    There was discussion about including members from Accessibility groups to MSTAC to provide oversight into work that is being done on that front. It was requested that there be a presentation at the next MSTAC meeting to see what some of the work that is being done on the Accessibility front and how it impacts trail use.

    State Trail Implementation Plan Update
    An update was provided by the Department on the State Trail Implementation Plan (www.michigan.gov/trailplan). Currently they are assigning roles to each of the action plans and that should be completed in the next few weeks.

    Trail Connector Prioritization
    Each of the subcommittees (Snowmobile, ORV, Equine, Non-Motorized) each have been tasked with identifying and prioritizing trail connectors and bring them to the next MSTAC meeting in July.

    ORV & Snowmobile Budget Update

    ORV License Sales:
    • 2014 Season – ORV License ($26.25) – 6,482 sold to date since 4/1/14
    o New Trail Usage License ($10.00) – 2,562 sold to date since 4/1/14
    • 2013 Season – 9,189 Sold
    • 2012 Season – 21,631 Sold (Extraordinary early warm spring)
    • 2011 Season – 9,002

    ORV Operating budget (Goal to maintain 1.3Mil balance):

    Beginning Fund Balance Revenue Expenditures Ending Fund Balance
    2013 Audit 1,085,100 3,324,078 3,233,974 2,485,045
    2014 Proposal 2,486,045 6,047,605 7,124,200 1,409,450

    The increase in the proposed expenditures for 2014 is for 300 new miles of ORV trails that are proposed as well as replacing many bridges on the ORV trail system.

    Snowmobile Trail Permit Sales:
    • 2014 Season – 138,573
    • 2013 Season – 136,082
    • 2012 Season – 124,287
    • 2011 Season– 164, 002

    Snowmobile Operating budget:

    Beginning Fund Balance Revenue Expenditures Ending Fund Balance
    2013 Audit 3,372,544 8,288,074 7,418,401 4,224,217
    2014 to 3/28/14 4,342,217 6,905,394 6,075,928 5,071,683


    Gold Standard Trail Proposal
    A proposal was made to form a subcommittee that would create the criteria and polices for managing trails labeled as “Gold Trails”. These would be a small subset of trails that have historical, scenic or other attributes that would require further attention in the management of the department land. This many would focus on the forest management activities that would happen along the trails that are identified as “Gold” trails. MSTAC approved a 5 member subcommittee who is tasked with investigating what the criteria would be and to report back at the next MSTAC meeting in July.

    ORV Advisory Group Update
    Thomas Dunn, head of the ORVAW, provided an update from the last ORVAW meeting. The major update was regarding the proposed Silver Lake online voucher system. The workgroup still has not received any of the finical information requested of the department. As such the ORVAW still has not provided their “stamp of approval” on the proposed online voucher system.
    Past Land Use Committee Chairman, now serving on the Land Use Committee
    Tri-City Trail Riders President since 2010
    83' CJ-7, I-6 Propane with HEI, SOA, 4.10's and lockers

  2. #2

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    My short answer is that I am getting more and more sick of our government BS.

    With that, Rob and Pat, thanks for attending on our behalf.
    KDSRGON GL#2665 KD8EGK
    Thanks to those that do all the hard work.

  3. #3
    Vertically Challenged 4x4 GLFWDA Member phittie1100's Avatar
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    Thanks guys. Really disappointed in the DNRs view of how to implement SB50.
    Paul - 2005 Wrangler Unlimited
    KD8PAV

  4. #4
    Needin' Time to Wheel GLFWDA Member Jarhead's Avatar
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    Talk about ambiguous language:

    A permit would be required in the following scenarios:
    • Special Signage was required
    • Potential for Resource Damage
    • Department participation was required during the event
    • A Fee or Donation is charged

    It is sad enough we go through the steps to maneuver a bill into law of which the DNR was just one of many piranhas, only to have the DNR still fail to recognize the law as written as to the intent. The drop in ORV Licenses should be a warning sign to them that we are willing to take our vehicles to any State aside from Michigan to recreate due to their insidious meddling and failure to recognize the need to utilize the lands this Great State affords us as recreational users.
    Jarhead (Bob)
    Past President GLFWDA
    Former Membership Secretary
    Former Landuse Committee Chair


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  5. #5

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    Unbelievable... so they have taken the mandate to only require notification to mean that we need to notify them so they can decide to issue a permit in any case... any given event we do pretty much falls within their guidelines! I think we definitely need to push back on this in a big way... Lets discuss next steps on May 2nd at the meeting if not before!

  6. #6
    GLFWDA Member GLFWDA Member TWEAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lpm606 View Post
    Unbelievable... so they have taken the mandate to only require notification to mean that we need to notify them so they can decide to issue a permit in any case... any given event we do pretty much falls within their guidelines! I think we definitely need to push back on this in a big way... Lets discuss next steps on May 2nd at the meeting if not before!
    We already have a small group working on our next steps, and planning on discussing further at the next BOD meeting.
    Past Land Use Committee Chairman, now serving on the Land Use Committee
    Tri-City Trail Riders President since 2010
    83' CJ-7, I-6 Propane with HEI, SOA, 4.10's and lockers

  7. #7

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    Only change in what I witnessed in this new meeting format was that audience did not get the same time allotted for public comment as we had when it was the ORV Advisory board. Other than that we still have to accomplish our goals the same way, through other channels.
    Lifetime member,Past President, Past Memb. Sec.
    Past Corresp. Sec.
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  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarhead View Post
    Talk about ambiguous language:

    A permit would be required in the following scenarios:
    • Special Signage was required
    • Potential for Resource Damage
    • Department participation was required during the event
    • A Fee or Donation is charged

    It is sad enough we go through the steps to maneuver a bill into law of which the DNR was just one of many piranhas, only to have the DNR still fail to recognize the law as written as to the intent. The drop in ORV Licenses should be a warning sign to them that we are willing to take our vehicles to any State aside from Michigan to recreate due to their insidious meddling and failure to recognize the need to utilize the lands this Great State affords us as recreational users.
    I'm convinced this is what they really want. Make it difficult so folks don't go...the increase in ORV permits is just the start...my 2¢.

  9. #9

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    Here is basically what the department was proposing:
    • Any group over 20 USERS would be required to notify the department. The department would review to make sure that there were no other conflicts in the area as well as validate that a permit would not be needed.
    o A permit would be required in the following scenarios:
     Special Signage was required
     Potential for Resource Damage
     Department participation was required during the event
     A Fee or Donation is charged
    Where in SB50 does it allow the DNR to intact these bogus stipulations? This would require practically any and every group of people using State Land to go through the DNR.

  10. #10

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    As far as I am concerned we should not even consider applying for a permit and just go trail riding. How did I know that 60 of my best friends would show up? Guess we better get the banquet room to eat.
    KDSRGON GL#2665 KD8EGK
    Thanks to those that do all the hard work.

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