ORVAW Meeting March 5th @ 10am - Need GLFWDA Reps!

[TWEAK]

Thanks for attending Ed and for the great write-up.

Bummer that Jason Fleming was not present to speak about the new event trigger language. Sounds like they will be discussing it further at the MSTAC meeting. If all we needed to do was "notify" the DNR of larger groups using the land and they wouldn't be accessing fees and trying to limit what we could do that would be fine. The problem that is not the case today across the entire department, so until it is crystal clear on when a permit is needed we will continue to push to make sure that the DNR implements the permit structure as it was intended as part of SB50.

[kb8ymf]

Excellent update on the meeting. One 'little' detail almost got by me..........did anyone else see this?

They are proposing a $10.00 fee for the Saturday & Sunday vouchers during the normal voucher period running May through September. The fees would go back in to operating and maintaining the park (Less a portion that is paid to the operator of the system).

So a park that supports a LARGE number of other 'revenue underperforming' parks in this state and yet they are going to extract MORE out of the ORV commuity.
Sorry, this just doesn't sit well with me.
Jim

[lpm606]

One of the members of the workgroup made a similar point about the park already supposedly "making money" and Charlotte said that many, many years ago the park may have generated revenue but as long as she can recall it is more or less a "Break even" type proposition. She showed some budget numbers, including something like $113,000 annually coming from the ORV fund to the park for the scramble area. I'm sure Pat Brower will receive a copy of the presentation and can get more specific. The money raised from the vouchers would remain at the park - not go towards supporting other parks.

[WhiteRhino]

This will be contrary to other opinions but here goes; With my discussions with Oakland County Parks about the project in Oakland County, their philosophy on charging for any of the park services is based on user exclusivity. A walking path, bike path, dog park, etc can have many people without effecting others. Therefore, there is not a premium charged for that access. As your impact on others and exclusivity increases, your fee increases. They can only allow so many people in the water parks, so the fee goes up. The most extreme example is a golf T-time. Only you, and our 3 other partners have access to that Tee at your designated time. Therefore, you impact other users greatly, therefore you pay for it.

When comparing it to the Vouchers at Silver Lake, I can envision a similarity. They only have a certain amount of Vouchers for a given time. Therefore, by you receiving one, you restrict others from having access. In addition, I am fully aware that there are times people will get vouchers and if they drank too much the night before and can't make the early time, they say "oh well, I'll just get another one for a later time". By charging for vouchers, I see people being more diligent about making their times.

Do I want to keep paying more and more for access to my state land and parks? NO. Am I surprised? NO

[kb8ymf]

One of the members of the workgroup made a similar point about the park already supposedly "making money" and Charlotte said that many, many years ago the park may have generated revenue but as long as she can recall it is more or less a "Break even" type proposition. She showed some budget numbers, including something like $113,000 annually coming from the ORV fund to the park for the scramble area. I'm sure Pat Brower will receive a copy of the presentation and can get more specific. The money raised from the vouchers would remain at the park - not go towards supporting other parks.

I'm sorry that just doesn't make sense. By that statement you are telling me that the park is LESS popular today that is was 5 years ago. If that was true why are they struggleing with longer voucher lines on Friday. Who believes that?
Just visit any other park in the states system. No where EVER is there the concentration and volume of users.
I also don't buy that 'money stays at the park' statment either. I was around when the Michigan Lottery money was suppose to go to Education. We know what happened to that. General Fund money was displaced by lottery money and the education system ended up being the looser by NOT getting any additional money.

FYI: Tee times cost the same @ 7:00 am as they do @ 2:00 pm. If your not there, they move up the next group.

jim

[lpm606]

Just telling you what was relayed in the presentation, Jim... I'm not here to trying to defend or justify their position...

[kb8ymf]

Just telling you what was relayed in the presentation, Jim... I'm not here to trying to defend or justify their position...

Ed, I get that and I'm not picking on the 'messenger'.
As many will tell you, we've been treated as if we were mushrooms since 1976 when P.A. 319 was passed. I've sat through thousands of hours of meetings and I've come to realize that the DNR is going to do whatever they choose to do in spite of any legislative actions or laws put on the books. Same goes for what 'trails' we can use or not use. (For those that question this, think 'Pinball Alley') They can without any justification close anything they want or charge anything they want without any public say. How is that not a Dictatorship?
Jim

[gnjeepn]

I personally feel the voucher system for dune ready vouchers is ridiculous. I understand why the parking lot vouchers are in place. Are they proposing to charge $10 for either type voucher?

[WhiteRhino]

I personally feel the voucher system for dune ready vouchers is ridiculous. I understand why the parking lot vouchers are in place. Are they proposing to charge $10 for either type voucher?

Did you ever go to the dunes before the voucher system was in place? It is way better now.

[gnjeepn]

Did you ever go to the dunes before the voucher system was in place? It is way better now.

I have been there before the voucher system. While I agree it is better I feel for dune ready vehicles it is unnessasary. The main thing that tends to clog things up are parking lot users. They don't know how to park so they waste a lot of space thus causing the line coming in to get backed up. They need better organization to make things move along better.

I don't go as much as I use to but have been around long enough to see things evolve. I just think there is a better way and charging an additional $10 for an unneeded voucher isn't the answer. At least for dune ready.