HOUSE & SENATE APPROVE ORV STICKER INCREASE - HB 4669

[TJ/WILLYS]

I buy a ORV sticker for everyone of my toy's every year. One for the jeep, two for my quads, and two for my bikes. Even though I don't get as much time to use my toy's as I would like, increase or not I will still buy them.

[Rocky]

Sure is strange how we can get a bill like SB 4669 to pass in 6 weeks of floor time but we cant find a legislator who will spend 5 minutes of time with us to amend some very old and outdated ORV laws that we have had in place since 1991. Check this out, our kids [at any age] may legally operate ANY OFF ROAD VEHICLE on Michigans designated trail system that is classified as an ORV, which includes Dirt bikes, Side by Sides, Pick-Up trucks, Jeeps, Sand Rails ect, as long as they have a valid ORV Safety certificate and direct visual supervision of an adult while operating. BUT, may not operate a 4 wheeler [ ATV ] under the same/similier circumstances until they are 12 years old.

And did you know that your kid cannot even legally PRACTICE operating with either an ORV or an ATV on even their own ma/ma daddy's property without first obtaining an ORV safety training certificate when they are under the age of 16 years old?

In 2012, I was interveiwed by the Detroit FP and complained of the poor shape of some of our 50 inch ORV trails.Lew Shuler [ Executive Director CCC ] told the Detroit Freepress in the same interview that Michigan has the BEST MAINTAINED TRAIL SYSTEM ANYWHERE IN THE COUNTRY and that my comments regarding poor trail maintenece are no longer valid. What Shuler forgot to tell the FP was that his non-profit club rakes in over 250k per year for the sub-standard work that they do on some of our ORV-ATV trails.All of this money is paid directly out of YOUR $16.25 ORV sticker fee's. I'll bet with this new increase in user fee's, he'll be smiling all the way to the bank now.

This is no slam on GLFWDA because I dont operate a full size ORV on Michigan ORV Routes so I have no idea what shape you guys keep your portion of trails in for the grant dollars you receive,and I do know quite a few of you folks and all seem to be straight-up folks. BUT, as an avid person who operates an ATV on our 50 inch trails, their is NO WAY we have the best maintained trails in the country. Tough to inspect 3600 miles of trails PROPERLY when only 3 DNR inspectors do all the inspections, and ALL 3 inspectors work for Forest Mineral Fire Management Divison of the DNR. If a widfire breaks out during the trail inspections, guess where these 3 inspectors are headed? Can you say BYE BYE trail inspection! In a trail maintenence workshop that I attended, the trail inspectors admitted that they do not inspect the entire trail, of course, I already knew that. The DNR can hire additional outside trail inspection help if they want, but its pretty apperant that they would rather give us sub standard trail inspections than to hire outside trail inspection help to assure all 3600 miles of trails are actaully inspected and we our getting our dollars worth.

Look at all the WASTE of YOUR ORV sticker dollars that go into the ORV Instructors Academy. Under Dept of Education, the rules stated that all safety classes were to give 4 hours of classroom and 3 hours of hands on training. Along comes the DNR in Oct of 2003 and removes the hands on portion of the training class and no longer makes it mandidtory. YET they spend 75% of this instructors academy training outside doing HANDS ON training, one for ATVs, one for Dirt Bikes, one for SxS, and one for winching.

YOUR ORV Dollars, hard at work!

[lgottler]

What do you consider a well maintained trail? I grew up on quads until I was about 20 then went to Jeeps. I loved the wornout challenging wet, swampy, steep trails. Slow technical was fun. The trails that were wide with whoops for miles sucked. Trees down were awesome. 15 years ago, the most fun I had was north of Atlanta mi on an atv trail up there that was a mix of dirt water, mud technical root hopping fun. The area I was most familiar with, by center fire trail by standish gradually grew boring, they kept improving it to the point of boredom, moving trails to less technical areas, away from anything even remotely damp, etc...

My idea of maintained trail are markers, signs and trimming up branches neck high. For full size, same but trim trees 8 ft high. Dont touch the trail with a blade!

[Rocky]

What do you consider a well maintained trail? I grew up on quads until I was about 20 then went to Jeeps. I loved the wornout challenging wet, swampy, steep trails. Slow technical was fun. The trails that were wide with whoops for miles sucked. Trees down were awesome. 15 years ago, the most fun I had was north of Atlanta mi on an atv trail up there that was a mix of dirt water, mud technical root hopping fun. The area I was most familiar with, by center fire trail by standish gradually grew boring, they kept improving it to the point of boredom, moving trails to less technical areas, away from anything even remotely damp, etc...

My idea of maintained trail are markers, signs and trimming up branches neck high. For full size, same but trim trees 8 ft high. Dont touch the trail with a blade!

I also like a challenging trail too, but grant sponsors are suppose to follow the guidlines that are in the handbook first.

When a grant sponsor agree's to do trail maintenence, he/she is given a ORV Trail & Route Maintenance Handbook by the DNR. This book outlines trail clearance standards which are as follows,

* TRAILS/ROUTES SHOULD BE CLEARED OF BRUSH,BRANCHES, AND OBSTRUCTIONS WITH THE DIMENSIONS ACCORDING TO THE FOLLOWING.

^MOTORCYCLE TRAILS are to be cleared to 24 inches width at ground level and 40 inches at handlebar level up to 8 feet.
^ATV TRAILS are to be cleared to 50 inches width up to 8 feet.
^ORV ROUTES are to be cleared to 72 inches width up to 8 feet
^CONFIDENCE markers shall be spaced at approximately 0.1 mile intervals

These guidelines are directly from the Trail Maintenance Handbook and its what every ORVer pays for when they are operating on a designated trail system. I can tell you with a great deal of accuracy that very few 50 inch trails meet the above guidelines, yet some of the non-profits been sucking the trail maintenance portion of your $16.25 ORV sticker fee's dry for years, all with the consent of the DNR. Now they are going to laugh all the way to the bank again.

[lgottler]

I understand. I've been lost on a quad trail once, marks once every couple hundred yards, but hit an area littered with illegal cross trails and followed most well traveled, ended up joining the road and a dnr truck parked there. Luckily they understood our problem and told us not to let them see us on the road again.

I've done trail maintenance with glfwda once or twice and understand that part. We did, in my eyes, a great job marking and placing signs and confidence markers. But it has been years since I've been down an atv trail.

Again, if with what Rocky is saying is true, id like to see a plan laid out to show me how this doubling of the fee will be used. Still 3 people when able? Or one dedicated position for inspection. As well as my concerns about full size trail riding opportunities.

Maybe a letter, who should get it?

[Rocky]

I understand. I've been lost on a quad trail once, marks once every couple hundred yards, but hit an area littered with illegal cross trails and followed most well traveled, ended up joining the road and a dnr truck parked there. Luckily they understood our problem and told us not to let them see us on the road again.

I've done trail maintenance with glfwda once or twice and understand that part. We did, in my eyes, a great job marking and placing signs and confidence markers. But it has been years since I've been down an atv trail.

Again, if with what Rocky is saying is true, id like to see a plan laid out to show me how this doubling of the fee will be used. Still 3 people when able? Or one dedicated position for inspection. As well as my concerns about full size trail riding opportunities.

Maybe a letter, who should get it?

I think we sell about 200k ORV stickers per year. And of these 200k sold stickers, ''maybe'' a total of 10k are from folks involved in various non-profit ORV clubs. Most of the non profit club leaders and the DNR are the people who go to Lansing and lobby our legislators for these fee increases while the other 190k ORV users usually find out about it after the fact, so essentailly, you have a few people making the choices for 190k un-informed people.In the last random ORV survey taken around 2009 or 2010 by Dr Charles Nelson of MSU, indicated that approx 65% of RANDOM ORVers did not support a fee increase. Once again, a few ORVers making the call for ALL of us! There is SO much waste in this program, its not amusing to discuss. I have been instructing ORV Safety education classes since 1999,I did it on both a state level and a nation level.

Some common questions that seems to appear in every class,

1.Why are the trails in such bad shape?
2.Where does my $16.25 ORV sticker fee go?
3.Why can my 6 year old ride a dirt bike but not an ATV until he is 12?

[Rocky]

SO, Please take a look at [d] does it mean starting April 1 of 2019 that ORVers start to ride for free in Michigan? Its does say ''no fee''

(2) The fee for a ORV license is as follows

(a) For a license valid for the 12-month period beginning April 1, 2013, $16.25.
(b) For a license valid for a 12-month period beginning April 1, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, or 2018 and that does not
authorize operation of the ORV on state ORV trails, $26.25.
(c) For a license valid for a 12-month period beginning April 1, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, or 2018 and that authorizes
operation of the ORV on state ORV trails, $36.25.
(d) For a license valid for a 12-month period beginning April 1, 2019 or a subsequent April 1, no fee.

[TWEAK]

SO, Please take a look at [d] does it mean starting April 1 of 2019 that ORVers start to ride for free in Michigan? Its does say ''no fee''

(2) The fee for a ORV license is as follows

(a) For a license valid for the 12-month period beginning April 1, 2013, $16.25.
(b) For a license valid for a 12-month period beginning April 1, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, or 2018 and that does not
authorize operation of the ORV on state ORV trails, $26.25.
(c) For a license valid for a 12-month period beginning April 1, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, or 2018 and that authorizes
operation of the ORV on state ORV trails, $36.25.
(d) For a license valid for a 12-month period beginning April 1, 2019 or a subsequent April 1, no fee.

I am guessing that the idea here is this will force them to re-evaluate the fees before 2019 after having the new structure in place for 5 years.

[fsumotorhead]

I am guessing that the idea here is this will force them to raise the fees before 2019 after having the new structure in place for 5 years.

fixed it for you