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Thread: ORV Education Advisory Committee

  1. #31
    Lower 41.5 GLFWDA Member Renegade II's Avatar
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    The 14 year, 9 month to 15 year old 'permit' drivers are all over the place. Their numbers are growing like crazy all over the roads. I literally deal with them in multiple numbers every day and can confirm that 99.9% of their parents just set next to them and do 'taxi time' until they can hand off the keys for good. This age groups skills don't seem to improve much by the time they hit 16 and go solo. IIRC a youngster in this age group was involved in a crash at Silver Lake Dunes a few years back and his mother died as a rusult. I believe it was a rental or newly purchased vehicle. Maybe an educational safety program may have prevented the loss of life.

    Newbies in our sport pop up from this age group and drag mom or dad out to the dunes or trail all the time in the new family SUV. And very often the parents have no clue either, so you end up with the blind leading the blind. Just set at Appletree & Duneland and watch how many of the clueless folks are dragged out to the dunes by their kids and are buying mounts and flags for the new SUV that neither one of them really know how to operate off road.

    Im not an advocate of teaching kids under the age of 16 to operate any ATV/ORV that they are not mature/big enough to operate.Putting this full size information in the student manual when most kids don'y even have a drivers license yet, encourages this type of activity IMO.
    First of all, if they don't have a license why would they be operating an automobile anyway? Second; These kids are already out there in large numbers, with their unwitting parents, offroading without any safety education. And from 20+ years of working in our law / courts systems I can 100% assure you that the principle of 'if you don't educate them on how to get out of trouble they won't get into it' doesn't work.

  2. #32
    Chair, Land Use Committee GLFWDA Member Trail_Fanatic's Avatar
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    Michigan Statute includes 4x4s and RUVs in the definition of Off Road Vehicle. I think the Department would be remiss in its duties if it did not include the safe operation of those forms of off road vehicle in its curriculum.

    The Program does not simply teach safety habits to be used until a person reaches the age when they are no longer required to have a valid Safety Certificate by law; it teaches habits and principals that we hope will last a lifetime. Like Renegade said, youth at 14 and 15 years of age are very close to obtaining their driverís licenses. Fifteen year olds will be taking driverís training courses and getting their Operatorís Permits; some will soon have four wheel drive vehicles. It is anticipated that exposing students to this information will, over time, result in a reduction of 4x4 and RUV related offenses and most importantly, extraction related injuries and deaths. It is also anticipated that this information will now make its way into the ORV Handbook, exposing this material to even more enthusiasts, most of those over 16 years of age.
    Pat Brower

    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

  3. #33

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade II View Post

    First of all, if they don't have a license why would they be operating an automobile anyway? Second; These kids are already out there in large numbers, with their unwitting parents, offroading without any safety education.
    The way Michigan ORV laws are structured, a youth can legally operate a full size 4x4,on designated ORV Routes with adult visual supervision and a safety certificate,they dont need a drivers license. As already mentioned, I dont support this. If they are already out there offroading without their parents knowledge and no safety certification, maybe its time mom/dad start to get to know their kids.

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trail_Fanatic View Post
    Michigan Statute includes 4x4s and RUVs in the definition of Off Road Vehicle. I think the Department would be remiss in its duties if it did not include the safe operation of those forms of off road vehicle in its curriculum.
    Michigan ORV statue only classifies ATV or ORVs. By using terminology not even in statue yet like, OHM,OHV,UTV, im afraid may create confusement to new instructors and some students.A full size 4x4, UTV is an ORV under Michigan law and should be addressed as such in my opinion.

    .

    A

  6. #36
    Chair, Land Use Committee GLFWDA Member Trail_Fanatic's Avatar
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    Either would be fine imho.
    An RUV is a "motor driven off-road recreation vehicle capable of cross-country travel
    without benefit of a road or trail, on or immediately over land, snow, ice, marsh, swampland, or other natural
    terrain." and since "ORV or vehicle includes, but is not limited to, a multitrack or multiwheel drive vehicle, an ATV, a
    motorcycle or related 2-wheel, 3-wheel, or 4-wheel vehicle, an amphibious machine, a ground effect air
    cushion vehicle, or other means of transportation deriving motive power from a source other than muscle or
    wind.", I don't see any harm exposing students to terms that are pertinent.
    Pat Brower

    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

  7. #37

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    Pat,
    Page 49 of the student manual gives the same definition for a OHV that you just gave for a RUV.

    Could you please give me the MCL for the definiton of the RUV [ not ORV ] you mention above?

    My point?, The vehicles you refer to are either ATVs or they are ORVs under State statue. No such thing as a OHV UTV OHM under State Statue.

    In very simple terms, the definition of an ATV is,

    ATV*
    3-4 or 6 wheeled vehicle,designated for off-road use that has low pressure balloon type type tires,with a seat that is designed to be straddled by the operator, powered by an engine in size from 50cc on up to 1000cc*

    Any other off road vehicle that does not fit the full definition of a ATV would be classified as a ORV regardless of what the dealership calls them when they are selling them [ OHV RUV UTV Jeeps Full size PU ect ]

    I understand the compassion to use terminology like RUV UTV OHM OHV ect and I suppose it would be OK to use those words while teaching, however, I also believe that as instructors, we have the responsibility to make sure our kids and parents understand that these types of vehicles are either ATV or ORVs under Michigan Statue.

    Thats All
    Last edited by Rocky; April 5th, 2011 at 08:02 AM.

  8. #38
    Chair, Land Use Committee GLFWDA Member Trail_Fanatic's Avatar
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    Point well taken.
    My personal viewpoint is that the Program should teach both statutory and common practice terminology and agree that the distinction should be emphasized.
    Makes me wonder if a glossary might be in order?
    Pat Brower

    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

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