Thoughts...........

[Roadhouse]

I picked this up from some old MJ post tonight. I was searching back through the files and found this qoute from 2-3 years ago.........its sad but some of it's true. .

I myself have not wheeled in MI back in the 80's, 70's, etc, so I can only guess how much has changed since then. I do know how much it has changed since the early 90's.
The funny thing about this post and the mention of too many people using out land, is person is still wheelin'......so it's not like they have stopped using the trails to preserve them.
I didn't post this to start along drawn out debate, I just thought it was interesting.



I have not joined any off-road group for one reason.
I have this conflict with who protects what, and who advocates what
No organized group of off-roaders have convinced me that they know how to preserve any off-roading in Michigan.
I see trails closing in CO, UT, WY, and MI due to the increase of abuse.
The Co trails are becoming overused, due to Cadillac off-roaders who wear down the rocks we once respected.
The off-roading community grew too fast, and with too few of you/ we thinking about the future.
I doubt that I will every see my kids enjoying the views from Drummond Island "Marble Head", or Castle Rock in CO, due to the irresponsible abuse of "organized" off-roading events.
I wish I and you all could turn back the clock....and I wish I had never moved rocks at Marble Head to allow some young friends to tear it up, and I wish I would have never showed some Jeepers here how to buy bigger tires to tear up the "Mounds", and I wish I would have never ..seen folks draining and refilling broken transfer cases and transmissions at the Mounds.
In short, I think we have doomed our own areas.

[lgottler]

Originally posted by Roadhouse66@Feb 26 2005, 01:29 AM

I have not joined any off-road group for one reason.
I have this conflict with who protects what, and who advocates what
No organized group of off-roaders have convinced me that they know how to preserve any off-roading in Michigan.
I see trails closing in CO, UT, WY, and MI due to the increase of abuse.
The Co trails are becoming overused, due to Cadillac off-roaders who wear down the rocks we once respected.
The off-roading community grew too fast, and with too few of you/ we thinking about the future.
I doubt that I will every see my kids enjoying the views from Drummond Island "Marble Head", or Castle Rock in CO, due to the irresponsible abuse of "organized" off-roading events.
I wish I and you all could turn back the clock....and I wish I had never moved rocks at Marble Head to allow some young friends to tear it up, and I wish I would have never showed some Jeepers here how to buy bigger tires to tear up the "Mounds", and I wish I would have never ..seen folks draining and refilling broken transfer cases and transmissions at the Mounds.
In short, I think we have doomed our own areas.
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That ticks me off right there&#33;&#33;&#33; Who would do such a stupid thing&#33;&#33;&#33;?? A friend of mine who I wheel with up in the UP had a run in with a rock that cracked his oil pan and it started to leak. Well, I didn&#39;t think twice about donating my cooler to catch the oil. I can&#39;t imagine someone thinking doing thats OK in any way&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

I&#39;d also like to see something stated somewhere that we may leave our tire tracks on the trails, but unless its absolutely unavoidable for vehicular forward motion including assistance via tow strap or winch, you cannot cut trees down&#33; I also think if a tree is to be taken out, the smaller ones go first&#33;

Now if your bringing back an old trail that was grown over, thats one thing, but its another to get stuck on a tree or something and start cutting it down because you don&#39;t want to dent something or you don&#39;t want to take a strap or winch out of it. Or even because you don&#39;t want others to get stuck on it, bad idea&#33;

Now to the other parts of that.... I think what you have is far too few areas that offer any sort of challenge. This makes for groups and individuals to flock to the obstacles that are here and use them over and over again. How many "organized" events are there to places like Drummond vs. how many smaller groups go by themselves? I remember Drummond from &#39;99, my first trip. Marble Head was about 15&#39; wide from my memory and some pics I have. There was a harder side and an easier side. Last time I was there, about 3 years now it was already (3 yrs worth of use) wider and the rocks face changed quite drasticly.

Now, places like Canada for our Gitchee Gummee event, you could hold an event there now and take none of the same trails for the 2 day event. Just last year I think there was 3-4 new trails/loops found. In another few years (due to the time it takes to explore and find) you could run all new trails on this event, then show up the next year and run completely different ones for every group going out&#33;

This is where I see the most "good" done, some is done with the How you wheel and most is done with the Where you wheel and When.

We ran a trail in Canada 2-3 years ago and couldn&#39;t find it a year later&#33;&#33;&#33; If you didn&#39;t know it was there, you wouldn&#39;t ever find it. Thats mother nature for you&#33;

Thats just my Sunday morning reaction to that&#33; The fingers got a good excersize this morning&#33;

Lucas

[WhiteRhino]

My simple response is: This is why I rejoined GL after a 15 year gap. I did wheel in the 70&#39;s and 80&#39;s. Yes, trails are closed.
But, I am here to tell you that the awareness is so much better than 20 years ago.

I was amazed to see Anthony Brassuer, a 21 year old young man, be more concerned with damaging the soil than his blown engine at DOA 2 years ago.
20 years ago, no one would have thought twice. Good for him&#33;

So, let&#39;s not give up, but rather, keep up the effort to be able to use our land responsibly. Be part of the solution&#33;

Nuff said.

[JohnnyJ]

A quick search and it was who I thought it was. He makes statements like this frequently when this subject comes up, and will generally not respond when facts are put on the table.

This reminds me of the "conservationalist" type of talk that the greenies have spouted over the years to close down areas to the public, so that a select few chosen people who have the areas best interest in mind can patrol it (and get their private use from it).

It&#39;s BS to me, one way for a person to claim county/state/federal land as their own, because only they are righteous enough to deserve the right to use it and protect it. You&#39;d think they were a king and we lived in a society where they deserved special privileges.

[Roadhouse]

Johnny I knew you would know who it was. I just find it amusing that this person himself has been big at organizing ride and taking groups of people out to the trails he says are over used.

[brewmenn]

Originally posted by Roadhouse66@Feb 28 2005, 02:23 PM
Johnny I knew you would know who it was. I just find it amusing that this person himself has been big at organizing ride and taking groups of people out to the trails he says are over used.
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Well I was curious os I searched and found our who it was that was quoted.
It was who i expected. I consider him a good freind and respect his opinion.

Honestly, I can&#39;t remember the last time I actually saw him wheel. It&#39;s probably been a year or two. And I don&#39;t know if I would say he was ever "big at organizing ride and taking groups of people out". Yes, he was involved in some of the early events planned through MJ (or GLJU, it&#39;s predecessor) but that was when the group was much smaller. And if I read his comments correctly, he&#39;s saying that he now regrets some of it.

[yogi]

its to bad that he cant see that being in a group can make a difference.
one person by them selfs will never get anything changed.





yogi

[Walker]

Nothing stays the same...nothing is static in nature, or in the world. Not all change is good, not all change is bad. At best, we can try to respect what&#39;s here now, and try to protect what we can for the future. In all honesty, the best way to do is to tell the person who&#39;s being a jerk,,,exactly what he is. For example If you see someone knocking down a small tree,,,or making new ruts in the land by spining their tires just because they can, tell em to knock it off. When I see I see that kind of stuff it makes me wonder about the drivers IQ, instead of being impressed.

However, that being said, a trail is going to worsen over time and use..entropy will find a way. So what? I&#39;ll just enjoy driving it all the more...

Once upon a time Detroit was a sleepy lil fort along the side of a river. Look at er now... progress. At one time I could drive to Marble Head on 28&#39;s .. Now its a 33&#39;s and soon to be 35&#39;s,,,,progress .. plus now-a-days I have a lot more friends who enjoy making the trip with me....who said change is always bad?