Car and Driver article

[WhiteRhino]

I decided to send this email to car and driver

Dear Editor,
I am the trail ride committee chairman for Great Lakes Four Wheel Drive Association (GLFWDA.org) which is a non profit organization dedicated to the sport of Full Size 4x4 vehicle recreation. Our organization is in constant contact with the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality (DEQ) and we continually find ourselves doing damage control with the DEQ due to uneducated people violating our state laws.

Your recent article depicting vehicles on Drummond Island was recently brought to my attention. It is articles like this that continue to get more of our public land closed. Your people driving on closed beaches give the unknowing beginner the false impression that these are open beaches. In turn, it gives those trying to close our public land more ammunition, showing how people disregard the laws.

You are not the only ones. I find it horrifying how many of our auto companies show 4x4’s splashing through streams and mud with wheels churning. This tells everyone that this is what the enthusiast wants.

Well, we don’t.

I suggest that you contact the local Michigan DEQ office and explain that you have heard from GLFWDA and we do not approve. Further, I suggest that you print “A LARGE” retraction in your magazine noting your mistake. A simple small blurb buried in the editor’s page is not sufficient.


Sincerely,
A very disgruntled reader

Jim Kitson
Davisburg, MI

GLFWDA Trail Ride Committee Chairman

[Bult4mud]

10-4 JIM good read

Hope you post their reply

[Creative Fab]

I like it! Thanks Jim

[Bult4mud]

One of their headquarters is in YPSI/Ann Arbor area....

:ninja: TIME

[kb8ymf]

We're all forgetting about Craig Hoffman. He was the one who led C&D around by the nose ring. If anyone needs to have e-mails sent them, it's him. C&D was just following someone who they were told knew the Island.
Heck, even DI Offroad Club and the DNR didn't know anything out this photo shoot.
I'm trying to find his address right now. I'll post when/if it's found.
jim-kb8ymf

[motrctyman]

How about a little background or link. I searched http://www.caranddriver.com/search.asp?section_id=56&article_id=0but came up with zippo

[WhiteRhino]

How about a little background or link. I searched http://www.caranddriver.com/search.asp?section_id=56&article_id=0but came up with zippo

For those that haven't been following this thread:

http://www.greatlakes4x4.com/showthread.php?t=72187

[motrctyman]

This Craig Hoffman???Craig A. Hoffman and his wife, Amy, are the parents of one daughter, Rachel, and have lived on Drummond Island for the past eight years. Their daughter is in the fourth grade at Drummond Island Elementary. Mr. Hoffman has lived in the Upper Peninsula since 1977, when his parents bought a gas station and general store in Germfask. He attended Bay de Noc College in Escanaba, before he was graduated from Michigan State University in East Lansing with a turf grass management degree. He now works as golf course superintendent at The Rock on Drummond Island. He has worked in the golf industry for more than 25 years. Mr. Hoffman has been involved with the district’s Parent Volunteer Group, the Drummond Island Volunteer Fire Department, Drummond Island Clinic, and Drummond Island Sportsman’s Club. He has coached baseball and soccer, and has helped with the high school golf team, and worked with preschool kids every spring. “I have also been involved with the newly formed parental involvement committee to get more parents involved with the schools, and from these meetings I have volunteered to be the lead parent at Drummond Island Elementary,” he added. He is President of the Northern Michigan Turf Managers Association and was recently appointed by Governor Jennifer Granholm to sit on the Groundwater Conservation Advisory Council, which allows him to recommend legislation on water use. He has also served on several other state level policy committees since 1997. <a href="http://www.stignacenews.com/news/2005/0427/News/244.htmlHere&#39;s" target="_blank">http://www.stignacenews.com/news/2005/0427/News/244.html Here's his contact info:http://detour.eup.k12.mi.us/696490215113245/site/default.asp

[joe_jeep]

This Craig Hoffman???Craig A. Hoffman and his wife, Amy, are the parents of one daughter, Rachel, and have lived on Drummond Island for the past eight years. Their daughter is in the fourth grade at Drummond Island Elementary. Mr. Hoffman has lived in the Upper Peninsula since 1977, when his parents bought a gas station and general store in Germfask. He attended Bay de Noc College in Escanaba, before he was graduated from Michigan State University in East Lansing with a turf grass management degree. He now works as golf course superintendent at The Rock on Drummond Island. He has worked in the golf industry for more than 25 years. Mr. Hoffman has been involved with the district’s Parent Volunteer Group, the Drummond Island Volunteer Fire Department, Drummond Island Clinic, and Drummond Island Sportsman’s Club. He has coached baseball and soccer, and has helped with the high school golf team, and worked with preschool kids every spring. “I have also been involved with the newly formed parental involvement committee to get more parents involved with the schools, and from these meetings I have volunteered to be the lead parent at Drummond Island Elementary,” he added. He is President of the Northern Michigan Turf Managers Association and was recently appointed by Governor Jennifer Granholm to sit on the Groundwater Conservation Advisory Council, which allows him to recommend legislation on water use. He has also served on several other state level policy committees since 1997. <a href="http://www.stignacenews.com/news/2005/0427/News/244.htmlHere's" target="_blank">http://www.stignacenews.com/news/2005/0427/News/244.html Here's his contact info:http://detour.eup.k12.mi.us/696490215113245/site/default.asp


that kinda info is a little scary! remind me not to piss u off!!! lol
good job magnum pi!

[motrctyman]

that kinda info is a little scary! remind me not to piss u off!!! lol
good job magnum pi!
Actually, I think a brother of his has a family tree website, too! It IS kinda scary about what you can find out on the 'net!:wave:

[kb8ymf]

Dear Mr. Craig Hoffman and Editors of Car & Driver:
re: Mudpuppies article

I just finished reading the latest Car & Driver article and I was deeply disappointed by the actions exhibited by the writers under your guidance.

Great Lakes Four Wheel Drive Assn has worked for many years with State and Local DNR Officials in an effort to change the public perception that 4 wheelers are nothing but mud-bogging environmentally irresponsible yahoos! That article has set the progress back a few years and gave environmentalist one more nail for the coffin.
Besides violating numerous state laws with regard to being in the water with the vehicles and driving on closed trails, the actions dipicted by yourself and C&D have given the general public the idea that they can just drive right out on to the rocky beach or down any forest road without legal ramifications. That simply is not true. Those actions alone would have cost your group thousands of dollars if the DNR would have caught you.
You of all people, with all your awards for environmental responsibility, should know better than to drive a vehicle out on sensitive piece of land like the edge of the lake or go thrashing through a forest road without regard to it's effect on the surrounding ecosystem.
That act is akin to driving a golf cart across a soggy fairway or over a green. You certainly wouldn't do that, would you?
While you weren't necessarily in the pictures, you were the guide and defacto ambassador of 4 wheeling for that outing. It was your responsibility to keep the the writers within the bounds of the Tread Lightly principals. These are the credo which GLFWDA, MSG 4WD Club, Jeep Jamboree, Drummond Island Offroad Club, and others that use Drumond Island for recreational activities adhere to.
On a final note, wouldn't Turtle Ridge ORV Park been a more applicable location to showcase 4WD vehicles as it is the one legal place to play on Drummond Island?

For future reference Great Lakes Four Wheel Drive Assn or the Drummond Island Offroad Club members who are knowledgeable in the ORV laws of the State of Michigan would have served as outstanding guides and would have done so if we had been contacted.

GLFWDA can be reached via their website at www.glfwda.org (http://www.glfwda.org/forum/../)
Drummond Island Offroad Club can be reach via the Turtle Ridge Offroad Park www.turtleridgeorv.com (http://www.turtleridgeorv.com/)
Tread Lightly Information can be found at www.treadlightly.org (http://www.treadlightly.org/)

Respectfully,
James Mazzola
UFWDA Ambassador Member
GLFWDA Lifetime Member
kb8ymf@juno.com

[timbercruiser]

Let's hope they hear you and follow the rules next time.

[Deathdealer]

any replies to these emails?

[kb8ymf]

nope, will take a few days for most people to check their e-mails and Craig's home one bounced back but it looks like I got his work one.
jim-kb8ymf

[eman-da-warranty-man]

kb8ymf and WhiteRino,

I joined the club to meet other 4 wheelers, learn more about all aspects of building and operating 4wd vehicles RESPONSIBLY. I congratulate and thank you both for your very well written professional letters addressing this issue. I hope your letters do somehow get published for others to read.

[ouchman]

kb8ymf and WhiteRino,

I joined the club to meet other 4 wheelers, learn more about all aspects of building and operating 4wd vehicles RESPONSIBLY. I congratulate and thank you both for your very well written professional letters addressing this issue. I hope your letters do somehow get published for others to read.

x2 :thumb:

[T-way]

Nice job Jim & Jim!!! Mr. Hoffman needs to be "educated"!!!

:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

[Kixx007]

Hey can someone email Criag and tell him thanks for disgracing my last name. Car and Driver is over on Hogback in Ypsi/A2, Right across from The Hogback Hilton (County Jail). They bring their cars to the school and work on them and they also bring them thru my work all the time. The Editor frequents the wash all the time.

[Troll53]

Still no response from C&D? I wouldn't be surprised if they never respond.
Too bad, that was a well written letter...

[WhiteRhino]

Probably will end up as letters to the editor

[GreaseMonkey]

Probably will end up as letters to the editor

x2.

I hate to say it, but nothing will probably come of it.

[joe_jeep]

Probably will end up as letters to the editor

i hope your right! but i bet it gets burried. good job to both of you guys on the letters. thx for being our voice. im sure you wrote them better than i would have.

[Rattler]

Nothing in the March issue of C&D I received today.

[joe_jeep]

is c&d part of primedia like petersons and jp?

[Rattler]

is c&d part of primedia like petersons and jp?

No. Hachette-Fillpacchi Media owns them.

[kb8ymf]

Ding, Ding, Ding........Steve Spence just replied to me. I need to dig out the DNR rules and fire it back to him. Here's his letter:
jim
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

James Mazzola

You write, "Besides violating numerous state laws with regard to being in the water with the vehicles and driving on closed trails. . ." Exactly what law or regulation do you allege that we were in violation of? If we cannot "just drive right out on to the rocky beach or down any forest road," would it not seem plausible that the authorities would post signs to that effect? And you're saying if a DNR official had come upon us he would have cited us "thousands of dollars"? Exactly for what?

Steve Spence, Managing Editor, Car and Driver

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[phittie1100]

AAhhh, at last a response!

[95geo]

he's trying to call your bluff..... why don't you call in to some of the authorities at the dnr and have him get an ear-full directly from the source.

[Jarhead]

State land Use Rules: http://www.state.mi.us/orr/emi/admincode.asp?AdminCode=Single&Admin_Num=29900921&Dpt=NR&RngHigh=

[motrctyman]

State land Use Rules: http://www.state.mi.us/orr/emi/admincode.asp?AdminCode=Single&Admin_Num=29900921&Dpt=NR&RngHigh=
not specific enough. Which one? :confused:

[kb8ymf]

not specific enough. Which one? :confused:
For openers.....
jim-kb8ymf

229.921 Rule 21 section (h) (ii). This rule dictates that if there were over 20 people in attendance you would be subject to permit requirements.
229.921 Rule 21 section (b) also states that commercial use of State land requires a permit.
229.921 Rule 21 (i) spells out the 2WD rule requirement, which has the greatest impact on Full Size users, (i.e. Jeeps, Trailblazers, Land Rovers, etc.) in Michigan.
229.922 Rule 21 section (m) also states that your actions in holding an event were illegal unless a permit was granted.

[T-way]

Stay on 'em JIm!!!!

This is getting good!!!

[kb8ymf]

OK everyone, I replied to the magazine with Cc's going to the DNR in the area who are doing the investigation of the activities in question.
I decided to refrain from posting the letter just yet until they've (C&D) had a chance to respond.
Thanks to all who posted links and suggested actions.
We'll see what happens next. Letters to the Editor usually take two to three issues to surface so we'll have to wait till Aptil or May for anything. If they do print it, I anticipate that there will be plenty of 'mis-quotes'.
jim-kb8ymf

[Rattler]

If they do print it, I anticipate that there will be plenty of 'mis-quotes'.
jim-kb8ymf

I was going to post something in regards to them doing so being they are press. I have had a few letters published by auto rags and they tend to take liberities at re-writing/editing/changing-your-opinion with letters.

[Troll53]

This may be slightly off topic but I believe it is still related. I was surprised this weekend to catch a few minutes of Extreme 4x4 on Spike tv. They were apologizing for showing improper winching techniques in a previous show (not using a tree saver and clipping the winch hook back on the cable). They demonstrated how they had done it wrong before, why it was wrong and then, showed the appropriate technique. Why can't C&D just man up and admit a mistake?

[JohnnyJ]

I saw that epsiode over the weekend. It is good that they did that.

The funny part is they then proceeded to stand in all the wrong spots while winching. Jesse was standing right next to the snatch block. The way it was edited looked like the stood there while winching, not just to get it setup.

[Rattler]

I posted this on GL4x4 too. Jim's letter and their respsonse is in the May issue.