Woods n Waters

[NewRide]

Hey anyone get this months woods n waters already ?? I was reading in an article about Drummond Island and the Jeep Jamboree . Makes for some interesting reading !

[WhiteRhino]

I don't subscribe so can you expand a little please?

[NewRide]

I don't have to article in front of me right now , but it was talking about what happened at the Jeep Jamboree and the Maxton plains. They were trying to look at it from both sides of the coin about ORV routes and such. There were some interesting comments in there from some of the snow mobile guys talking smack about the damage orv's are doing to "their " trails. A few people in the article were suggestion that there be a tire size limit on the Island or trails. I can't find the article online ... I'll retype some of it here later, I have a copy of it at work ..

[Trail_Fanatic]

I'll be very interested to read it!

[joe_jeep]

id like to blow my nose on it! or worse!

[joe_jeep]

im sure some will see this as heresy, but perhaps we need to talk to the dnr and usfs about a speed limit on the trails. say 20 or 25 mph. it will save lives! sobriety check lanes on popular trails would be good also!
we can protect these snowmobilers from their need for speed & beer.
they do all they can to close all trails to us year around. i think we could give them a dose of their own medicine, without closing any trails.
i bet they dont find the trails so fun at 20 mph sober!!!!!:poke:
we been rolling over and taking their bs for too long.

[Jarhead]

Here's the website: http://www.woods-n-waternews.com/1homebody.lasso

But I did not find anything on the article. I too would like to read the article. The magazine has a "Letter to the Editor" section and with the article in hand, I believe we could provide a adequate response.

[SKIP]

I sent an email to the editor yesterday requesting an electronic version of the article.
We'll see how that goes since I'm not a subscriber I'm sure they won't be racing to accomodate me...

[Walker]

Its a biased article, in my opinion. The writer contacted me and asked a few questions.. I recall at the time, I thought the direction the of interview was going to be slanted to oppose off-road recreation. The author wanted me to supply her with some pictures of Jeeps in action... etc. I did not do so based on her line of questions.. I wasn't sure of how they would be used.

While the article is biased against off-road activites..the attack wasnt severe. It also attemps to address the need for some controls....I dont agree with all of them.. but I do agree there are some things we can do to improve our public image.

I'll try and get a copy posted. I have a copy of the article

[Zookeeper]

im sure some will see this as heresy, but perhaps we need to talk to the dnr and usfs about a speed limit on the trails. say 20 or 25 mph. it will save lives! sobriety check lanes on popular trails would be good also!
we can protect these snowmobilers from their need for speed & beer.
they do all they can to close all trails to us year around. i think we could give them a dose of their own medicine, without closing any trails.
i bet they dont find the trails so fun at 20 mph sober!!!!!:poke:
we been rolling over and taking their bs for too long.

Amen, brother.

[Rattler]

im sure some will see this as heresy, but perhaps we need to talk to the dnr and usfs about a speed limit on the trails. say 20 or 25 mph. it will save lives! sobriety check lanes on popular trails would be good also!
we can protect these snowmobilers from their need for speed & beer.
they do all they can to close all trails to us year around. i think we could give them a dose of their own medicine, without closing any trails.
i bet they dont find the trails so fun at 20 mph sober!!!!!:poke:
we been rolling over and taking their bs for too long.

There probably aren't as many deaths in our sport as there there are on sleds in a year either. And if you took away the Silver Lake idiot factor, I am not sure if there would be any with us.

[NewRide]

Walker is correct on the article ... here are some quotes from that article :


Many residents have complained of damage to the trails. A local logger stated that he is not allowed to leave skidder ruts more than 6" deep on state property, yet he has witnessed Jeep-caused ruts as deep as 40 ". The Jeep Jamboree should not be allowed on trails with ruts over 6" deep nor should they be allowed to run vehicles out into Lake Huron at Sand Bay or Bass Cove. They shouldnt be permitted to 'run the island' until after July 15th when the trails dry up , so they can 'tread lightly'

Steve Anderson , who has been a member of the Drummond Island Snowmobile Club for over 28 years, added his input to the controversy :

" A few independent Jeeps at various times of the year, do not extract the same environmental impact as do 80-300 Jeeps during the Jeep Jamboree.
The condition of the trails is causing problems for snowmobile trail maintenance. The base required before grooming trails has dramatically increased because the snow has to fill the holes previously filled with dirt:consequently, it shortens the snowmobiling season which brings much needed revenue to the island. It appears as though the Snowmobiles Club has been held to a higher standards by the DNR .....

Some of Mr Anderson's suggestions to solving some of the problems:

Make some trails off limit to Jeeps . Make sure sponsors and participants know they will be ticketed if using private land or are off state trails. Limit tires size on these vehicles : the bigger the tire the greater the damage. Make ORV stickers a must on all vehicles.

Dale Graves , Trailmaster, DI Snowmobile Club added his input:
As trailmaster , I am responsible for maintaining snowmobile trails on DI. This year, I actually rebuilt the trail to Marble Head. It appears to me that Jeeps sporting the big tires are the vehicles tearing up the trails, making them impassable to traverse. I fully believe that the Michigan DNR should limit the size of tires on these vehicles, since 'No Trespassing' signs do little to deter them.Over the past several years, I have had to spend snowmobile club monies to put up private gates along snowmobile access routes, to keep these wide-tired Jeeps off private land.Landowners have afforded DNR easements for snowmobile access and received payment for same. Our easement leases cover trails from December 1 to April 1. Snowmobile trails are self-funded with funds coming back to clubs by law from the State of Michigan. Under normal conditions , we have miles upon miles of trails to properly maintain with these funds. Jeep-caused damage escalates that maintenance."


So from what I'm guessing/reading all damage done anywhere in the world, or just in Michigan , is caused by a Jeep! Not any other vehicle but a Jeep with wide tires. Hell that shouldnt be hard to find that guy !! Just look for a Jeep with wide tires thats dirty ... :poke:And the snowmobile clubs use thier own money to put up gates so the State { ie. you and me } pays them back ???:banghead: that doesnt even make since !! I really like Joe's idea ... we will use smaller tires if they use more sobriety!! All the maps I have or have seen show hundreds maybe even thousands of horse, quad , motorcycle and snowmobile trails. But were are ours ?? Am I over reacting a bit ??

[WhiteRhino]

40" deep ruts from tires??????????? Who's running an 80" diameter tire?

It's a shame that snomobilers have to use snowmobile money to gate off snowmobile trails. Seems like if I want to gate off my property I should use my own money.

And where are there ruts going out to Marblehead? Last time I was there it was all rock.

[Jarhead]

...And where are there ruts going out to Marblehead? Last time I was there it was all rock.
It still is...small rock and no rougher than cobblestone.

[Rattler]

Sounds like the outhouse doesn't smell after a snowmobiler uses it. Its a good thing those quads don't leave ruts or the snowmobilers might be mad at them too.:rolleyes:

[SKIP]

Nice...
I can't even type a response that would be even close to politically correct for that article right now...

[phittie1100]

And of course smaller tires will make for less rutting and less erosion....because they get better traction??

[SKIP]

And of course smaller tires will make for less rutting and less erosion....because they get better traction??


No, that would be because they have a smaller foot print & spread the weight over a much smaller, concentrated area. :hysterical:

[Ridgerunner]

It seems to me from reading the quotations posted above that this is nothing more than a bunch of propoganda aimed at the readers of woods and waters. I'll have to pick up a copy to see if the whole article is slanted.

I wonder If Mr. graves had permits pulled in order to reconstruct the marble head trail. I always thought of the marble head trail starting from the intersection of the Glen cove trail wich is all rock out to the cliffs. Maybee he considers the marble head route starts at corn beef jct? needless to say, deep ruts or mud holes would fill with water anyway and freeze over, making the trail smoother for a sled.

I would bet over the last several years that the Four wheeling crowd has brought in more revenue to the Island than the snowmobile crowd. the last thing the the busness folks on Drummond need to do is cut off the money that comes there way year after year from the 4x4 community.

[joe_jeep]

2 msa members were trying to get me to join msa last year while i was on the polaris. i told them i would when msa stopped trying to close trails to other users. they looked at me like i was retarded. :banghead:
how many days were drummonds trails open for snowmobile season last year. 8 ? 10 ? according to snowmobileworld.com's website it was closed almost all year! and im glad they were! hope it dont snow there ever again! let the sissy snowmobilers go elsewhere.
and i bet the rebuild they were talking of the marble head trail was the bridge they built out there.
P.S. WHEN EVER YOU SEE ONE OF THE DONATION POTS TO SUPPORT THE SNOWMOBILE TRAILS, PUT SOMETHING REALLY DISGUSTING IN IT!

[Creative Fab]

P.S. WHEN EVER YOU SEE ONE OF THE DONATION POTS TO SUPPORT THE SNOWMOBILE TRAILS, PUT SOMETHING REALLY DISGUSTING IN IT!

Like a booger?:hysterical:

[hunter4x4]

I guess it's time to weigh in on this one!! Skip just advised me that it was out there and that there was an - 'issue' - let's say!

Anyway, as an avid hunter and fisherman I pickup Woods n' Waters on a somewhat regular basis. And as far as a Michigan sportsman's rag it's not too bad. Good for local info and such, but not great.

And reading New Ride's quotes I picked out about 4 things that are misrepresentations (wrong!!) without even having to think.

For example:

Skidders leaving only 6" ruts. On concrete maybe!! During the 1996 Jamboree they were doing some spring logging on the trail from #27 up to the southeast beach. Prior to that the trails were a bouncy typical Drummond rocky 2-track. After that logging episode, it took us 2 hours to get each group (15-18 Jeeps) through a quarter mile section of that trail.
80-300 Jeeps? No wonder they're having problems because they can't count. The Jamboree has only had 300 PEOPLE up there a couple of times. we usually average 80-120 Jeeps per year.
40" ruts - as noted - is a myth.
Trails and grooming? The entire trail from #22 at the north end of Sheep Ranch Rd. to Marble Head used to take 1 to 2 hours in a 4x4 before the Snowmobile Assn. came in and redid the roads. Now you can get there in 45 minutes in a mini-van.
"I actually rebuilt the trail to Marble Head". WHAT?!!? I've been going up there almost 20 years and I really don't have a clue or know what he's talking about.Here's the biggie: As we in the ORV community know, it's not just about the ORVers - but ANY SOS licensed vehicle. What these guys have absolutely NO idea about is that any restriction they put on a 'Jeep' automatically goes against any SOS licensed vehcile. I'd LOVE to see the looks on one of these guys faces who's promoting a tire size (for Jeeps of course), but then when he shows up in F250 Super Duty with the Goodyear 315Rwhatevers and - Oh MY Gosh! - he can't go to his favorite hunting spot now 'cuz his truck's not legal!!!

It's not like I don't have enough to do these days, but I think I'll take a shot at a response to these guys and see if they publish or if I even get a reply. Obviously I'll take a more professional tone with a public response than I laid out here, but something's gotta be said.

First I need to see the whole article - and I'd like to see the whole issue that it was published in.

But that's my nickle's worth for now - time to go eat!

Mike O.

[Rattler]

P.S. WHEN EVER YOU SEE ONE OF THE DONATION POTS TO SUPPORT THE SNOWMOBILE TRAILS, PUT SOMETHING REALLY DISGUSTING IN IT!

Like a booger?:hysterical:

I thought of something but I am not familiar with how big the pots are.:bootyshake:

:hysterical:

[timbercruiser]

Apparantly, Mr. Anderson derives no economic gain from jeeps.

Having a one-dimensional economic plan is death! The way the past several winters have been, there has not been a lot of winter tourism dollars spent on Drummond Island.

[joe_jeep]

i wanted to lead a few friends on some of drummonds trails last year on the sleds. we couldnt the trails were closed almost every weekend. if they plan on living off snowmobile tourism dollars they are stupid! it cant be done any more! they better get a clue, or they will lose their buisness to forclosure. we had more quality snow in oscoda last winter. we ride there alot and its so nice. you can ride for 5 or 6 hours and see 8 to 10 other sleds. no traffic at all hardly. we go to houghton or grayling if thats the only snow around, otherwise we are in oscoda/glennie, great trails!

on the what to put in the donation box boogers will work fine pat, i was thinking of something from the cat box would be good too!