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phittie1100
December 13th, 2006, 08:17 PM
OK, time to educate me again on how to determine legal from illegal. One of our club members just moved up to the Gladwin area this summer, and has been poking around north of M61. He was trying to get down to the Gladwin Trail area that shows up on the DNR map as legal for full-size. Unfortunately he was trying to hit it from Ridge Rd to the NW of the trail, and ran into some really sloppy roads and turned back. I am guessing he was almost down to the bridge that has been gone for as long as I have been hunting up there. Anybody familiar with that area? Is there anything up there that is legal besides that little 8 mile loop?

kb8ymf
December 13th, 2006, 08:39 PM
Well, you've opened a can of worms on this one. Here's my opinion. If it's got orange ORV confidence markers you'll be OK with an ORV sticker. In fact the law even states you don't need one but why risk it with the loonie DNR interpetations of the ORV law. Now on the other trails, just bring your dads Buick. If you need 4wd your gonna get a ticket. The law says, you can only travel the trail in a 2wd passenger vehicle.
nuff said!
jim-kb8ymf

Creative Fab
December 13th, 2006, 09:30 PM
The road he was on is called Iron Bridge road, dont even think of being on it, you will get a ticket.

I know of several tickets for that two track that were written to 2 wheel drive truck owners, ticket read acting in an erosive manner. No way to traverse it without that effect. Plus the road crosses the Mollasses river and there is no bridge, water crossings are illegal.

Gladwin is a hot bed for tickets anymore and not worth the trouble of finding something to keep you entertained. Entertainment you will find will be in court.

The ORV route that is currently on the ground there is only a "shortcut" for the 50" trail. The Gladwin route used to be the only signed route that I had ever ran that actually had water on it almost year around, it used to be fun. Then when they decided to do some 50" trail work, the Cycle Cons. Club (they had the maint. grant) wanted to move the route so it was on higher ground and they didnt get their panties wet when they rode it. So they got their wish and now we have another useless route on our hands!

I was on Ridge Road sunday and actually witnessed a young kid riding his quad out hunting down Iron Bridge road south of RidgeRd. If I would have been driving my vehicle I would have stopped and asked him if he knew the ORV laws. As it was my uncle was driving and he was in a hurry to get back home after the nights hunt. Now his quad tracks are there for all to see, giving responsible quad folks a bad name and leading other non law abiding riders to think that it is ok to ride there, after all there are quad tracks.

I will get off this :phittie1100: now.

Roadhouse
December 13th, 2006, 10:50 PM
Gladwin use to be a great area, but now anything fun is blocked off, or a ticket waiting to happen.

To bad as its 15 minutes from my house :(

Trail_Fanatic
December 13th, 2006, 11:24 PM
You call it a road - with a name ,even.

ANY chance it's still on the County Road Commission books as a Certified road?

That's the only way I can think that you MIGHT be able to travel it if it's been closed by the DNR. This would make travel legal but creating an erosive condition would still be a no-no.

Creative Fab
December 14th, 2006, 09:24 AM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Trail_Fanatic &#064; Dec 13 2006, 10&#58;24 PM) 20637</div>

You call it a road - with a name ,even.

ANY chance it&#39;s still on the County Road Commission books as a Certified road?

That&#39;s the only way I can think that you MIGHT be able to travel it if it&#39;s been closed be the DNR. This would make travel legal but creating an erosive condition would still be a no-no.
[/b]

This road has been burmed only from the south, due to the bridge being out. Not much point in trying to make it legal, they will not build a bridge so we can use it. And if they did build a bridge the rest of the road would also have to be repaired as to not have any standing water on it, you know, create a "maintenance" situatuion that they claim is the very reason they burm roads in the first place. The State doesn&#39;t have the funds to maintain all the forest roads we have now, so they claim.

Take Iron Bridge Road (which is not the official county road name) north of Ridge Road and it has been repaired for approx. a mile due to recent logging. Another bridge that has been out for at least 30 years would keep you from venturing any further than this first mile.

phittie1100
December 14th, 2006, 09:30 AM
Thanks, all - you are confirming my assumptions, but I don&#39;t always trust my assumptions after an afternoon with Pat B in the National Forest this summer.

Trail_Fanatic
December 14th, 2006, 08:47 PM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(phittie1100 &#064; Dec 14 2006, 08&#58;30 AM) 20642</div>

but I don&#39;t always trust my assumptions after an afternoon with Pat B in the National Forest this summer.
[/b]


NFS, State, CRC - each has it&#39;s own set of rules to learn and follow.

Roadhouse
December 14th, 2006, 09:39 PM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ironman &#064; Dec 14 2006, 08&#58;24 AM) 20641</div>




Take Iron Bridge Road (which is not the official county road name) north of Ridge Road and it has been repaired for approx. a mile due to recent logging. Another bridge that has been out for at least 30 years would keep you from venturing any further than this first mile.
[/b]


I believe the offical name for that is Wildwood Rd. north of M61. South of that its called Deer Rd.

GreyBeard
December 14th, 2006, 10:30 PM
I guess we were pretty lucky when we were up exploring the area a year or two ago.
I had found some of the roads on the Garmin electronic maps that looked interesting. Sterling Truck Trail and Mosquito Alley Truck Trail for example. We found that Mosquito Alley was gated on the west end and basically not existent on the east end. We drove Sterling Truck Trail and stumbled on Wildwood Rd (or Wildwood DR as parts of it are labeled on Garmin&#39;s records).

Wildwood was clearly a two track. Lots of other things in the area were clearly posted as not for motorized or not for mechanized travel. There were no signs on Wildwood so we went south on it. A bit north of the Molasses River, there was an area to the west that had been cut and looked like they might be getting ready to put in some kind of access. Still lots of timber lying around. Maybe they were just logging.

We did cross the "river" and soon after came out over the berm and then onto 61. From the south side it was clearly bermed and clearly signed, but we were not the only ones who had been through there recently.

Having it clearly labeled as a road on my navigation system, obviously travelled, and not posted - I assumed it was legitimate. Live and learn.

Creative Fab
December 14th, 2006, 10:32 PM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Roadhouse &#064; Dec 14 2006, 08&#58;39 PM) 20664</div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ironman &#064; Dec 14 2006, 08&#58;24 AM) 20641




Take Iron Bridge Road (which is not the official county road name) north of Ridge Road and it has been repaired for approx. a mile due to recent logging. Another bridge that has been out for at least 30 years would keep you from venturing any further than this first mile.
[/b]


I believe the offical name for that is Wildwood Rd. north of M61. South of that its called Deer Rd.
[/b][/quote]

Isnt Deer Road the one that the ORV trail head is on? Maybe not, thinking Deer road is the one of two optional "outs" for Wildwood aka Iron Bridge road. On the north side of the Mollasses river is a two track heading west in which you can bypass the river crossing. However they burmed that about 4 years ago witha series of 5 or 6 burms in a row, just before hunting season. The hunters actually drove in the cat tails off the side of these burms to access there hunting spots. A lot of good it did to burm it. Just recently with the logging in the area they burmed the Deer road outlet. Bruce must have came out the Deer road way. This also used to be the way into the old ORV route I metioned above.



Your right about Iron Bridge road being called Wildwood Road officially.

GreyBeard
December 14th, 2006, 10:40 PM
My map shows Center Firelane Trail as 2.8 miles east along 61 from Wildwood Dr / Deer Rd.
We did get over to Center Firelane Trail, go south, and spend a while on the legitimate posted trails after we got done doing our thing on Wildwood.

Roadhouse
December 14th, 2006, 10:50 PM
Centerfire lane is where the ORV trailhead parking lot is.

phittie1100
December 15th, 2006, 09:43 AM
We hunt the area between the M61 and the river/broken bridge, off of one of those truck trails - can&#39;t remember the name. I am bad with road names, especially in the woods. "Turn left at the big oak with the painted orange X on it" is how I know the way to hunting camp. I know there are a lot of ATV/MC/snowmobile trails that criss-cross the area, but I have never poked around N of the river. My friend Tom has run into several folks near his new house who have told him they wheel up there all the time, but after a few of us sat down with maps & GPS, we couldn&#39;t see where there was anything that looked legal at first glance.

Roadhouse
December 15th, 2006, 06:32 PM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(phittie1100 &#064; Dec 15 2006, 08&#58;43 AM) 20680</div>

"Turn left at the big oak with the painted orange X on it" is how I know the way to hunting camp.
[/b]

Sounds like you might hunt off Mosquito Alley truck trail. Where it starts off Center Fire Tk Tr there is a big oak tree with an orange X on it. If you are heading north you would have to take a left onto it.
Altho&#39; I could be wrong. :monkeydance:

phittie1100
December 15th, 2006, 11:16 PM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Roadhouse &#064; Dec 15 2006, 05&#58;32 PM) 20693</div>

Sounds like you might hunt off Mosquito Alley truck trail. Where it starts off Center Fire Tk Tr there is a big oak tree with an orange X on it. If you are heading north you would have to take a left onto it.
Altho&#39; I could be wrong. :monkeydance:
[/b]

I checked the map when I got home, and you are right on.

Interesting update - Tom stopped in at the district office and talked to a CO for a while. The CO marked up a map for him to show him what trails were legal, and also let him know about some roads that would provide some entertainment because they are partially submerged this time of year.

GreyBeard
December 16th, 2006, 10:17 AM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(phittie1100 &#064; Dec 15 2006, 10&#58;16 PM) 20697</div>

I checked the map when I got home, and you are right on.

Interesting update - Tom stopped in at the district office and talked to a CO for a while. The CO marked up a map for him to show him what trails were legal, and also let him know about some roads that would provide some entertainment because they are partially submerged this time of year.
[/b]
Is there a possibility that some of that information might get posted here? Maybe scan the marked up map in and post it.

kb8ymf
December 16th, 2006, 11:34 AM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(phittie1100 &#064; Dec 15 2006, 10&#58;16 PM) 20697</div>

Interesting update - Tom stopped in at the district office and talked to a CO for a while. The CO marked up a map for him to show him what trails were legal, and also let him know about some roads that would provide some entertainment because they are partially submerged this time of year.
[/b]

This could get VERY INTERESTING&#33;
I&#39;m sure a few of the people working the trail opportunities/ORV plan would like to see some of these.
j-kb8ymf

Roadhouse
December 16th, 2006, 02:59 PM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(phittie1100 &#064; Dec 15 2006, 10&#58;16 PM) 20697</div>


and also let him know about some roads that would provide some entertainment because they are partially submerged this time of year.
[/b]

He is correct. Sterling Truck trail to the north end is so tore up right now it would be work for a rig on 35&#39;s locked f/r to make it through. Sterling Truck Trail is a seasonal road, not a two track.

phittie1100
December 16th, 2006, 05:48 PM
I&#39;ll keep you updated as I find out more.

My smart-ass comment was whether or not Tom wrote down the CO&#39;s badge number and had him sign a blood oath. Why does it take a visit to the DNR office and a personal meeting with a CO to find places to wheel without getting a ticket? Why isn&#39;t this information readily available or easy to figure out??

:phittie1100:

Trail_Fanatic
December 16th, 2006, 09:27 PM
And WHY haven&#39;t you posted a copy of the map for us yet&#33;

Seriously, PM it to me if you don&#39;t want it here.

Renegade II
December 17th, 2006, 12:21 AM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(phittie1100 &#064; Dec 16 2006, 04&#58;48 PM) 20708</div>

I&#39;ll keep you updated as I find out more.

My smart-ass comment was whether or not Tom wrote down the CO&#39;s badge number and had him sign a blood oath. Why does it take a visit to the DNR office and a personal meeting with a CO to find places to wheel without getting a ticket? Why isn&#39;t this information readily available or easy to figure out??

:phittie1100:
[/b]

Because each CO has a different interpretation of the laws.

Back in the late 80&#39;s / early 90&#39;s there were a couple of CO&#39;s that worked adjoining areas up in the Gladwin / Arenac area and each had a very individual and different view of the ORV laws. People "legally" entering one end of the trail system were getting hammered at the other end for doing the same thing. Needles to say everyone just stayed east to play after a short learning curve :WhiteRhino:

Another thing that doesn&#39;t help is that every time a new class of CO&#39;s comes out of academy the higher seniority guys bump everybody around to different districts. Hard to build up a business relationship when it&#39;s a different guy every time you go to ask a question :ahhh: .

kb8ymf
December 17th, 2006, 08:41 AM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Renegade II &#064; Dec 16 2006, 11&#58;21 PM) 20712</div>

Because each CO has a different interpretation of the laws.
[/b]

This is the EXACT thing that we need to bring before the Natural Resource Comission (NRC) coming up this January. As you may or may not know. The DNR has presented a proposal to be acted upon in at the January meeting. In essence it&#39;s the &#39;plan&#39; on how we move forward in designating the additional milage that the Legislature approved for us last year. The 25% more miles. Right now the proposal is slanted steepely towards motorcycles and ATV&#39;s. Not a word is in there for full size vehicles. Other than the MC and ATV guys want more connector routes. These routes get counted as OUR trails and we all know these don&#39;t do anything for us. Unless we can formulate a strong enough letter with examples AND appear before the NRC in January to make our case, we will once again be left out in the cold. I believe this upcoming meeing will be the most important one for us for the next 20 years. Right now we (GLFWDA) suspect this plan is getting rammed through for a number of reasons. We need to somehow shed somelight on it and get it stopped or at least put back into a formal committee of some sort so that we can get some of our fair share.
jim-kb8ymf

phittie1100
December 17th, 2006, 01:36 PM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Renegade II &#064; Dec 16 2006, 11&#58;21 PM) 20712</div>

Because each CO has a different interpretation of the laws.

Back in the late 80&#39;s / early 90&#39;s there were a couple of CO&#39;s that worked adjoining areas up in the Gladwin / Arenac area and each had a very individual and different view of the ORV laws. People "legally" entering one end of the trail system were getting hammered at the other end for doing the same thing. Needles to say everyone just stayed east to play after a short learning curve :WhiteRhino:

Another thing that doesn&#39;t help is that every time a new class of CO&#39;s comes out of academy the higher seniority guys bump everybody around to different districts. Hard to build up a business relationship when it&#39;s a different guy every time you go to ask a question :ahhh: .
[/b]

This has been my pet peeve from the beginning. Laws are created by the legislature, approved/vetoed by the governor, and interpreted by the courts. It&#39;s a good system with a long successful history. Nowhere in that loop is there room for subjectivity of the individual officer or the opinion of the district DNR manager. If I can&#39;t easily determine the intent of the law then how can I be expected to respect it? The alternative is to test the validity of the law and its interpretation through the court system (and who has the time and &#036;&#036; for that?) or go back to the legislature and have them rewrite the law so it is clearer.

Let me see if I can find a way to get the information from Tom this week.

Rattler
December 18th, 2006, 03:53 PM
I went across on Misquito Alley a couple times since Spring. I ran into some local kids at the corner of Centerfire. They had been tearing it up pretty good and told that it was really bad. But that was quite a while ago(April?). There was water across the road in one spot both times I went on it too.

I think Roadhouse knows those roads better than the DNR up there.

Renegade II
December 18th, 2006, 06:09 PM
Years ago I remember our club going to a crystal clear lake off of the Sterling and Mosquito Alley truck trails and seeing people water skiing behind a quad that was towing them from the beach. It was by I-75.
I still remember how to get there, but I&#39;m guessing just about every trail in that area would be "illegal" now :angry2:

There use to be another nasty trail not too far from there that in part ran along side a very long, very tall, very leaky, and very old beaver dam. I remember looking out my windows over the dam and seeing water higher than my hood, in a 79 Ford with 12" lift and 40&#39;s. :scared:

And by "trail" I mean a legal (at the time) two track on a quad map.

Roadhouse
December 18th, 2006, 09:54 PM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Renegade II &#064; Dec 18 2006, 05&#58;09 PM) 20741</div>

Years ago I remember our club going to a crystal clear lake off of the Sterling and Mosquito Alley truck trails and seeing people water skiing behind a quad that was towing them from the beach. It was by I-75.
I still remember how to get there, but I&#39;m guessing just about every trail in that area would be "illegal" now :angry2:


[/b]

The B pits. Those where open up until about 2001. Then the DNR gated the road going into them. They wanted to keep it open for people to enjoy the lakes for swimming, fishing, etc...but too many people where driving into them and getting stuck. Numerous times there where trucks left stuck in the lake for weekends and sometimes weeks. There where also alot of teenage keg parties out there on the weekend. You could still get to them from the pipeline, but running the pipeline trail is illegal.

motrctyman
March 31st, 2007, 05:16 AM
Here's a route I was planning on running. Never been here before. Glad I checked this site first. What are your opinions? Where should I avoid? I don't want to be illegal, but this map makes it look legit. It was published in 2001 by DeLorme.

motrctyman
March 31st, 2007, 05:47 AM
http://www.dnr.state.mi.us/spatialdatalibr...orv/gladwin.pdf (http://www.dnr.state.mi.us/spatialdatalibrary/pdf_maps/trail_maps/orv/gladwin.pdf)

motrctyman
March 31st, 2007, 06:30 AM
I can't figure out how to get to the legal "route" here without taking a "trail" first? Maybe I have to take Centerfireline Trail first? Is this route a dead-end and I have to turn-around to get out of? :WhiteRhino:

Trail_Fanatic
March 31st, 2007, 10:58 AM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(motrctyman &#064; Mar 31 2007, 05&#58;16 AM) 23760</div>

It was published in 2001 by DeLorme.
[/b]

I don&#39;t know that area and can&#39;t comment on it, specifically.

I do know that, over in my area, I&#39;ve noticed many trails on the map that aren&#39;t legal any more.
The Michigan Atlas and Gazetteer is a great scale map for the maintained stuff, but I think much of their data for the backwoods is outdated. While it can get you into trouble, it&#39;s also a great resource for finding good areas to look into further.

Glad you&#39;re looking into it further here.
I&#39;m extremely interested in hearing what people who do know that area have to say.

The GLFWDA Land Use Committee is in the process of obtaining Certification Maps of each county north of the Rifle Line (M46), but they haven&#39;t arrived yet. If this hasn&#39;t been settled when they do, I&#39;ll post up the Certified County owned roads in that area.

phittie1100
March 31st, 2007, 01:19 PM
I ended up missing our Gladwin run because of work, but let me see if I can get a map from the guys that did go. There was not a whole lot of legal fun stuff, other than a water hole on one trail that killed a transmission.

Roadhouse
March 31st, 2007, 09:18 PM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(motrctyman &#064; Mar 31 2007, 05&#58;16 AM) 23760</div>

[attachmentid=923]
Here&#39;s a route I was planning on running. Never been here before. Glad I checked this site first. What are your opinions? Where should I avoid? I don&#39;t want to be illegal, but this map makes it look legit. It was published in 2001 by DeLorme.
[/b]

Chris just about everything you highlighted on that map you CANT run. Its either private property or part of the Lame Duck game area where no motorized vehicle traffic is permitted. Now Sterling Truck trail you can run...but most of the time is an easy seasonal road. Spring time is really muddy and rutted up, until they grade it.

As for the Gladwin ORV route...its really boring now. It used to be a decent 5 mile stretch of muddy trail. That old section is no longer labeled an ORV route. The new route which is just short loop to connect two sections of ATV trail is just a sandy two track. To get to it you would need to take Centerfire Tr. to Mosquito Alley Truck Tr....then head west.

motrctyman
March 31st, 2007, 09:25 PM
Thanks. I was hoping you&#39;d chime in again. I just wanted a quick day trip and maybe a beer and burger at Hanks? in Alger. :yourock:

It is obviously a little closer than St. Helen

Roadhouse
April 4th, 2007, 12:11 PM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(motrctyman &#064; Mar 31 2007, 09&#58;25 PM) 23790</div>

Thanks. I was hoping you&#39;d chime in again. I just wanted a quick day trip and maybe a beer and burger at Hanks? in Alger. :yourock:

It is obviously a little closer than St. Helen
[/b]


Chris if you want to run that area some time let me know. I can meet up with you and Nancy, and show you some trails and sights.