What do you want in a Michigan trail system?

[Trail_Fanatic]

I know what kinds of trails I like.
I thought I'd see how many different interests we have.

I'm talking about a "natural" system -- two tracks over natural Michigan terrain. That means mud, sand, and hills in the LP and rocks, mud, etc. in the UP. I'm NOT talking about modifying trails to make them more difficult than the natural geography allows for (yet).

I like trails that are narrow, have topographic changes (preferably steep and tall), turns and twists, and offer scenic views of ALL of our 'habitat' types-- even the rare and 'sensitive' areas -- in ways that minimize detrimental impacts, of course. I don't want to destroy the very reason I'm out there.

I'd like at least 2-4 of the "old" obstacles (hill climbs, mud runs, etc.) as part of the 'legal' system IN EACH COUNTY in the northern lower and upper peninsulas.

I'd like to see a 'web' of trails that would allow travel from town-to-town as well as 'looped' trips.

I want high enough "trail density standards" to allow a person to travel through an area many times without needing to run the same trail ALL the time because it's the ONLY one.

I'm looking for your "Dream Scenario".
IF it was what you wanted, what would that be?

Anyone have additions or thoughts?

[Jarhead]

You captured my thoughts rather well. It doesn't hurt to dream.

[DDS4X4]

Ditto from Ohio! That is what would bring me and some friends to Michigan on a regular basis.
Thanks!

[WhiteRhino]

Pat,
You have it pretty good. In the description of the more difficult hill climbs and muddy terrain, I would like it to be recognized and accepted that there may be one or even two bypasses to allow a lesser capable vehicle to pass. It seems that this is where part of the road block is with the DNR....... it must be passable by everyone. Part of the attraction of a trail is that you and your vehicle are unique enough to make it where others may not be able to go.

Yes, let the natural terrain dictate the difficulty of the trail. And if it becomes more difficult over time, allow it to have a natural progression.

[phittie1100]

I want trails that go somewhere I want to go (like out to Marblehead) and offer some challenges along the way. Or trails that twist and wind their way through the woods offering a variet of challenges - rocks, mud, elevation changes. Something scenic to keep the whole family entertained, and enough challenges to keep me from dozing off. We have a trail system that can accomodate just about any 4x4 or awd vehicle, I want the next step up in difficulty. Or two steps...

[95geo]

search for "the rubicon" and "the hammers" and "johnson valley" "any trail in arizona or new mexico"

i know...... i need to move.

[timbercruiser]

I agree. The only other addition would be to leave any deadfall trees on the trail. Wet logs are a challenge. Ditto the bypasses.

[JohnnyJ]

Very well said.

Many of the legal michigan trails drive right by what I would like to drive on.

[GreyBeard]

Very nicely said.
I agree.
I also agree with the bypasses.

My only addition would be that some areas with ruts should be clearly spelled out as recognized parts of the trail for full size vehicles. These serious ruts would be part of the intended trail. A bypass should then be available for those that can't or don't want to challenge the ruts. The ruts should not be removed to make the trail friendlier to snowmobiles and quads.

Obviously our trails should be clearly and adequately marked as full sized vehicle trails. (I find the "ATV Trail" or "ORV Trail" signage to be troublesome on some of the trails that are clearly appropriate for full sized vehicles)

[Trail_Fanatic]

Thanks folks.

I really like the points about the bypasses and ruts.

I want to make sure I'm careful to represent ALL 4 wheelers' views, not just mine, when I'm speaking to "decision makers" at any level.

It sounds like we pretty much agree on things -- great minds think alike - right?

I dream that, once we had a decent "system" in place, we could then 'build' additional obstacles into it too.

[timbercruiser]

I've thought some more about it. I'd like to see some trails that a completely stock vehicle can make- in low range with good driving. also, we would have difficulty ratings on them-Like ski hills, green for Liberties, Blue for moderate rigs, etc....

[Renegade II]

I don't know if anyone here remembers Turtle Ponds (the whole system, River Rd to M-18) in Midland County, it had everything but rocks. Ask some of the older Sundowner members about Turtle Ponds runs back in the late 80's, and the Baker / 11 Mile Rd trails. Back then clubs came from all over the Midwest to run there....then closed unless posted open came along and brought it all to an end. Luther Michigan also use to have a couple Cedar swamp trails that were absolutely insane.........................ah, the good old days..........

[Roadhouse]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Renegade II &#064; Oct 10 2006, 12&#58;25 AM) 18666</div>

I don&#39;t know if anyone here remembers Turtle Ponds (the whole system, River Rd to M-18) in Midland County, it had everything but rocks. Ask some of the older Sundowner members about Turtle Ponds runs back in the late 80&#39;s, and the Baker / 11 Mile Rd trails. Back then clubs came from all over the Midwest to run there....then closed unless posted open came along and brought it all to an end. Luther Michigan also use to have a couple Cedar swamp trails that were absolutely insane.........................ah, the good old days..........
[/b]


Know it I live 4 miles from them. I still some hiking, mountain biking, and fishing back there. My buddie hunts off the 11mile Baker trails area. They closed it down when I first started wheelin&#39;. My wife grew up in Sanford and did a lot of wheelin&#39; there as a kid with her uncle and friends.
I know a lot of clubs back in the day had trailrides there. I know the Rut Runners back in the 80&#39;s used to make annual trips there.

[Trail_Fanatic]

[/quote]Know it I live 4 miles from them. I still some hiking, mountain biking, and fishing back there. My buddie hunts off the 11mile Baker trails area. [/quote]

I don&#39;t suppose you own a GPS?
Or have access to one you could borrow?

Or know the area well enough to rough draw the trails on a map?

I sure would like to submit them for consideration under the 25% more trails bill.

[Roadhouse]

Pat, I do have a GPS. And there are two trails in that area I could gps for ya...at least get you cord&#39;s to each end of the trail. I wont run it cause its a big ticket if I do.

I&#39;m not 100% sure if its even run able anymore. One of them is gated at one end to keep people out. The other trail had its west entrance/exit sold and made into a subdivision. The other couple of outlets on that west end are gated or burmed.

[shawn]

Pat, I&#39;m on the same page as yo uwith trails and what I would like. It all sounds great too me, thanks for your efforts&#33;

[99XJer]

Many trails open in Montmorency County. Sand, Hills, Swamps, just about everything you can think of (except rocks :( ). I grew up there and know the area well but not sure about what is open and what is not these days.
The SCCA used to have their Sno-drift Pro rally there a couple years ago and they still hold Rally Club events, so they are friendly to recreation vehicles of all types.
The ORV trail even goes through town&#33; Yes, motorcycles (dirt bikes), snowmobiles, etc, at the gas pumps in town, no problem. I know the snowmobilers make trail runs to the U.P. from there, so theres plenty of trails.
If anyones interested I&#39;ll find out as much as I can about it.

[lgottler]

What I would like would be varying length trails, roughly 1/4 - 2 mile NON looping trails that connect existing roads or easy trails. If you can&#39;t hack the trail rating, you won&#39;t have to take it, just follow the main trail around and meet up with the other side.

I want a sign, about 2&#39;x3&#39; that states the rules of the trail, spells out the rating system and rates the trail, one way or two way, with a small map of the whole trail for quick ref.

Another option, cut new trails (just drive around the woods with a skidder), in planned clear cut areas maybe 5-10 years out. So in 10 years, they come in, destroy the entire area, cutting every single tree out skidder trails all over the place, stumps, sticks, debris all over, so nobody will want to use the trails anymore&#33; Make new ones in another area, so you have a constant trail rotation process so trails get closed and new ones opened minimizing long term erosion etc..... :kb8ymf:

Lucas

[Trail_Fanatic]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(99Cherokee &#064; Oct 22 2006, 12&#58;41 PM) 19240</div>

Many trails open in Montmorency County. Sand, Hills, Swamps, just about everything you can think of (except rocks :( ). I&#39;ll find out as much as I can about it.
[/b]

PLEASE?

I&#39;m always interested in areas I don&#39;t know yet . . .especially local. It fits my buget better&#33;

I don&#39;t suppose you have a GPS?

Or have a way to (fairly) acurately draw them on a map that I could get from you?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lgottler &#064; Oct 22 2006, 06&#58;39 PM) 19246</div>

What I would like would be varying length trails, roughly 1/4 - 2 mile NON looping trails that connect existing roads or easy trails. If you can&#39;t hack the trail rating, you won&#39;t have to take it, just follow the main trail around and meet up with the other side.

I want a sign, about 2&#39;x3&#39; that states the rules of the trail, spells out the rating system and rates the trail, one way or two way, with a small map of the whole trail for quick ref.

Another option, cut new trails (just drive around the woods with a skidder), in planned clear cut areas maybe 5-10 years out. So in 10 years, they come in, destroy the entire area, cutting every single tree out skidder trails all over the place, stumps, sticks, debris all over, so nobody will want to use the trails anymore&#33; Make new ones in another area, so you have a constant trail rotation process so trails get closed and new ones opened minimizing long term erosion etc..... :kb8ymf:

Lucas
[/b]

Hmm . . .

Trail rotation?
Interesting idea.

And, yes, it&#39;s always nice to know you&#39;re legal -- although a small, selfish, part of me would rather not have ANY signs of human activity but the trail I&#39;m driving.

[99XJer]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Trail_Fanatic &#064; Oct 23 2006, 12&#58;53 AM) 19262</div>


PLEASE?

I&#39;m always interested in areas I don&#39;t know yet . . .especially local. It fits my buget better&#33;

I don&#39;t suppose you have a GPS?

Or have a way to (fairly) acurately draw them on a map that I could get from you?

[/b]

I have a GPS. I&#39;ve hooked it to my laptop and ran Microsoft Streets and Trips but never tried to save data before. I&#39;ll have to see what I can do this weekend.
I won&#39;t be up north again until Nov 15th for deer season. I&#39;ll try to have it together by then so I can get you some maps other than the regular ORV stuff here http://www.dnr.state.mi.us/spatialdatalibr...orv/atlanta.pdf (http://www.dnr.state.mi.us/spatialdatalibrary/pdf_maps/trail_maps/orv/atlanta.pdf).

[Trail_Fanatic]

Let me know if you need any help figuring out how to email the saved GPS tracks to me.

[joe_jeep]

some legal trails south of the 45th parallel would be nice? :phittie1100: