Hi, wanting to get started

[Adrian Thompson]

Hi, hopefully this is the right place to introduce myself and get started.

My wife has had a 93 Geo tracker since new. Don't laugh, it's been the most reliable vehicle either of us has ever owned. With the exception of consumables (tires, shocks, brakes, muffler) nothing has ever gone wrong with it in 14 years and 100K miles, actually that's not quite true, the volume knob has fallen off the radio. These day's it's just a spare vehicle that we keep around. We'd like to do some off roading with it. Nothing serious, more like some fun for the family, including the kids. My background is road racing so I know nothing about off roading except having fun on a friend's property. We are planning on going up to Silver lake for the Labor day weekend and have some questions.

I've been to the Mi DNR website and looked at the Silver lake info page but I'm a bit puzzled about a couple of things.
1. Where can I get a 10 foot high orange flag? Can I buy one up there or is there somewhere in SE Michigan I can get one so I can fit it first.
2. I'm confused about the rules for passengers and roll bars. This passage is confusing me;
8) Operate a vehicle requiring seat belts that is not equipped with an integral steel roof, or roll bar located immediately behind the operator, or roll cage, capable of supporting the weight of the vehicle. The operator and occupants of a vehicle without a full front windshield shall wear protective eyewear. The operator of a vehicle equipped with a roll bar shall comply with all the following requirements:
(a) The roll bar shall be welded or bolted to the floor or frame of the vehicle.
(B) The roll bar shall be braced in such a manner as to prevent collapse.
© The roll bar shall have clearance above, behind, and outside each seated occupant in the vehicle.

Does this mean I need a roll bar or not? It's a soft top Geo Tracker so it has an integral 'roll hoop' behind the driver, but nothing for the rear seat passengers, does this mean no one in the back?

Thanks for you help

Adrian Thompson.

[Creative Fab]

First of all welcome to the Great Lakes Fourwheel Drive Assoc. forums!

You can purchase the required flag at numerous shops around the Silver Lake area. Before you leave home make sure you have a place to mount the flag, a tab coming out from under the front bumper with a 1/2" hole for the flag will suffice. Your local hardware will have the steel flat stock to accomplish this. These tabs are also available where flags are sold at the dunes but to save you some vacation time it is easier to have it already on your ride.

As far as the roll bar goes, your back seat passengers will need helmets or have the rear seat turned around backwords, which is what some Jeep people do. Now if you were to add some tube work in the rear your back seat bodies would not need to wear a helmet. (shameless plug) I do this sort of work for a living, check out Ironmanoffroad.com

Also when running the dunes your tire pressure is critical, your lightweight vehicle will perform best at between 8 and 10 pounds per tire. Do not be afraid to run these low pressures! It will be a difference of climbing a hill or watching others climb it while you sit at the bottom wishing for lockers a lift and big tires, when none of these are needed to run sand.

I hope this helps!

Any other questions feel free to e-mail me at Ironmanoffroad@charter.net

[Nvrenuf]

OK so Pat types faster than I do :ironman:

Hello and Welcome!

We will try and answer any questions we can.
1. Yes flags are available at about any store near the dunes. (Just have a bracket or place to bolt to the front)
2. The integrated roll bar will be fine for the front seat but previously without a rear hoop rear seat passengers needed to wear a helmet. I think that rule still stands.

Steve

[Adrian Thompson]

Cool, thanks for the replies guys.

Let's clarify. For the flag I'm assuming something like a 1/4" steel tab coming out horizontally with a 1/2" hole through it? Then the flag goes through that with a nut on either side of the plate?

For helmet's what is the spec? I have a motor bike helmet and my old race helmet, but that seems a little overkill and a little too large for the kids. What's needed and what are the rules for Children. Can kids sit in the front of the car or do they need to be in the back?

Thanks for all you help

[Ridgerunner]

hello and welcome to the site!
ironman offroad builds awsome rollcages,but if your just getting started you could
buy some youth helmets for the kids or you can rent them at Dune land just outside the gate. I'm pretty sure the kids need to sit the back as if they're riding on the street.

[Renegade II]

Hello and welcome. What part of the state are you in? If your not too far from someone on here, they would be happy to show you what they have for a flag / mount or buzz up a mount for you.

[Adrian Thompson]

Thanks for all the help.

I'm in Beverly Hills - by Birmigham and Southfield. SE Michigan.

I'l make a mount for the flag this weekend, is there anywhere round Metro Detriot that sell flags so I can get one in advance?

I think I'll go with helmets, I don't want to go with a roll cage for now. PArtly for time, we're heading for Silver lake in a couple of weeks, and partly because I don't like cages in street driven vehicles for safety reasons.

Thanks

Adrian

[Nvrenuf]

I've never found flags anywhere else. Bike flags usually do not meet the requirements for size or height.

[Creative Fab]

Flags must be 10' tall and 1 square foot in size as well as being orange.

1/4" material will work great for the bracket!

[joe_jeep]

rec leisure usually carries the flags. 1-800-521-6848
31506 grand river ave, farmington hills, mi
call them first unless your in the neighborhood.
other wise most stores near the dunes have them lying around. like ironman said 8lbs of air in the tires no more or you will go no where!! have fun, dont be afraid to hammer it sand is a little more forgiving than rock or mud. you will be on the gas really hard quite often, or you will be backing down alot of hills. never turn on a hill go straight down or straight up. if you start to get a little sideways going down a hill a little throttle can get you straightened out usually. try low lock first, then after a while you can try high range. im thinking 4 low is gonna be more suited to the trackers powerband. you will have a blast! best of luck

[Adrian Thompson]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys. I'll check Rec Leisure on my way home as I work in Livonia and it's not too far out of my way.

Tire pressure is a good tip; I'm a little concerned about my tires. They're all season type SUV tires, BFG something's, I can't remember right now. Am I doomed to get stuck and cause a nuisance with them even at 8psi?

I'm not afraid to use what little power there is, it's a Tracker, it has an on off switch not a gas pedal!

Thanks again

[Creative Fab]

The best tires in the sand are street tires, yours sound perfect!

You will be amazed at where your Tracker will go once your out there. I have seen 2 wheel drive Taxi cab on the dunes before.

[Jarhead]

After you and your family have enjoyed your day on the dunes, DuneLand (just outside the entrance for the dunes) has free high pressure air hanging on a couple of trees (reels on trees). Stop patronize, fill up your tires.

[95geo]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ironman &#064; Aug 25 2006, 09&#58;42 AM) 16872</div>


You will be amazed at where your Tracker will go once your out there. I have seen 2 wheel drive Taxi cab on the dunes before.
[/b]

this was in 2 wheel drive, if i had about 50 more hp i would have been able to launch the hill rather than just get the front tires up. the dunes are really fun once you learn how to drive in them

http://www.misfitoffroad.com/phpbb/files/s7_28_06_046_175.jpg

[joe_jeep]

ya you will do great. no worries. hammer down&#33;

[95geo]

this is the hill, it wasnt small at all

http://www.misfitoffroad.com/phpbb/files/s7_28_06_045_143.jpg

and this is what more hp will get you :D

http://www.misfitoffroad.com/phpbb/files/img_1505_203.jpg

[Adrian Thompson]

Oh man, that looks great&#33;

95geo your truck looks cooler than the average Tracker, but can it compete with our manly white 93 including the hot pick &#39;Tracker&#39; emblems on the side&#33; Don&#39;t laugh too hard at me, my wife bought it before I even met here.

I located a flag on Friday and have made an mounted a bracket for it. We&#39;re all set for the trip out there after work on Thursday.

Thanks for all the help and advice.

[WhiteRhino]

Keep in mind that going this weekend will be a madhouse. If no one has explained it, for the 3 days of Sat, Sun and Mon, you must first have a voucher to get in the dunes. This is available right down the road from the entrance. They are set up for 2 hour increments so that people get in line "when they really plan to enter the dunes" rather than getting in line just to get a spot. Similar to what Cedar Point had a few years ago for the big rides. It actually works pretty well.

Have a good time.
Jim

[Adrian Thompson]

Did you know that Trackers float? More on that later.

Thanks for all the advice guys, we had a blast. We got to the dunes about 9:00am Friday morning and went cruised around for a while. Four up the Tracker couldn&#39;t manage the big hill (test hill?) but three or less in the car and it was no problem. My first try up the hill solo I hit one of the ridges in the dip when flat to the floor in second. Bystanders swear the rear axles was 2 feet off the ground and I thought I was going to do an endo for a moment there, but it sure was fun. I&#39;m amazed at how well the car did, it did everything we asked of it with no complaints. After a couple of hours we came out and went back to camp. We came back at noon and got in line for the weekend entry passes. 90 mins later we get to the head of the line, concerned that there would be any vouchers left for early time slots. No problems we got 9-11:00 for both days. We went in and out of the dunes 3-4 times each day with one to four people in the car between three different drivers. I found my technique really improved over the time. While bounding up the big hill and through the main dunes was fun, I really enjoyed playing in and around the tree&#39;s the most. I loved picking a random path round the obstacles and soon wished we had a quicker ratio steering rack as there is al lot of arm twirling needed at times. I loved the way you could turn in, the front end would start to wash out, quick lift to transfer the weight onto the front then back on the gas so the rear would come round allowing you to take a much tighter corner than would first seem possible, all the time keeping your momentum up so you didn&#39;t bog down. That was a real blast. We never got stuck (in the sand) and I loved driving slowly up some of the steeper hills past bigger, more powerful SUV&#39;s that were just digging holes and not moving. Endless fun and the kids loved it too. My wife and I both really like the look of the sand rails, it looks like a lot of fun to blast up the hills then do a wide arc across and back down. The lower driving position and center of gravity plus longer wheel base make them look a lot more comfortable over some of the bumps and ridges as well. One may be in our distant future. The 8psi in the tires was a great tip. Once when we were re-entering it was around 5 mins before the next group of ticket holders went in so we thought we&#39;d drive in on 30psi and let the tires down once in, bad move, while we got through the shute, we couldn&#39;t get up the hill to the main plateau before the test hill. Jump out and drop down to 8psi again and no problems.

We did notice how badly the surface deteriorated through the weekend. Friday morning the ridges and bumps weren’t that bad, but by Sunday night some areas were almost impossible at anything less than a crawl in the short wheelbase, high seating of the Tracker. How doe the sand &#39;recover&#39;? Is it just the wind that levels it all out again? The crowds were never quite as bad as I expected, although 8:30-9:00pm Sunday night was wild. I sat at the top of the hill with the kids for a while and I was getting a little nervous at how fast some people were coming through the small gaps, so we moved on to make room and feel safer. I was also really happy at how friendly and family oriented the whole thing was. My back ground is road racing and autocross, while some people do take there families racing, it is a more selfish, single past time. I was amazed at how people had their whole families out having fun, great to see. I also need to say a word about my Father-in-law, he&#39;s 73 and had as much fun as the rest of us, driving with gusto as well as tubing on the lake, &#39;swimming&#39; down the sand dunes when we went to the beach and complaining that there wasn&#39;t enough wind when we went sailing. He&#39;s a great guy and I hope I&#39;m half as physically active as he is when I&#39;m his age.

Now onto the floating bit. Monday morning I say I&#39;ll start breaking down camp (at the National Park campground) with my Mother in law while my wife, father in law and kids go into the dunes for a couple of hours. They would then come back and finish packing while I went back out for a last fling. Well two hours later they roll back into camp, my wife sheepishly calls &#39;Hoonneeeyyyyyyyyy&#39; and my 11 year old is jumping up and down shouting &#39;look at this, look at this&#39;. I assumed that they had hit something, but no, the &#39;look at this&#39; was because they were all soaked to the waist. I turns out they&#39;d been playing around one of the water holes. We&#39;d splashed around those before and been through a couple. Well they&#39;d been doing the same thing when my 11 year old said &#39;Mom drive through the middle&#39;. So she did. Or tried to. What we now know is that some of the big rig&#39;s with the 40" tires like to drive into the middle of these holes and churn them up. Well it turn&#39;s out that when trying to drive a little tracker through 3&#39; of water the wheels no longer leach the bottom as it starts to float first. Apparently it was impressively water tight, although water was coming up through the rear somewhere and eventually got as deep as the seats so we had a wet ride home. My wife stood up, waved and called for help, luckily she&#39;s far cuter than me so help was real quick coming. Apparently she made the guys day who pulled her out, he was in danger of going home for the first time ever without getting someone un-stuck. Who ever you were thank you very much. Once out someone pulled the plugs for them, turned the engine over and blew an impressive amount of water out the cylinders. Put the plugs back in and she fired right up. I think she was very lucky not to hydro-lock the engine and bend a rod. Once back to camp I told her no problem, the worst case scenario is everything&#39;s fine, and the best case scenario is the engine is toast and I get to build a new one, unfortunately everything is OK. I did a quick oil change at the camp ground, did you know that 4.5 quarts of oil plus 1/2 a mud hole = almost 6 quarts of chocolate milk&#33; Once the new oil was in we then drove 230 miles home with nothing worse than wet seats.

We made plenty of use of the free air at Duneland, probably filling up 8-10 times over the weekend. In exchange we spent several hundred &#036;&#036;&#39;s there, two helmets for the kids, sweat shirts, tee shirts, candy, drinks etc.

Once again thanks for everything guys, we had a blast.