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uncleedsjeep
July 17th, 2006, 08:09 PM
Lets talk On-Board air. My next project is to add on board air to my YJ 4.2l. I plan to use the existing A/C compressor. It will be interesting ot see how long it lasts. I plan to add oil to the intake every so often. It has a Rotary Compressor now. Over the next few weeks I will start collecting the stuff I need. The biggest items are the tank, I plan to get a used truck airbrake tank. The PSI switch and blow off are going to be new. I want to run the guage and on/off switch in the cab. I am very seriously considering using the roll cage as the air tank. As I see it the final outlets will be at the front and rear bumper unless I use the roll cage. Then I may just put the disconnects at the rear of the old YJ roll cage.

Wish me luck. I will check in when it is a go.
Ed

MuddyPaws
July 18th, 2006, 01:34 AM
2 words...

http://glfwda.org/images/ultimate-air.gif

95geo
July 18th, 2006, 07:47 AM
i used an OBA setup while in moab, the air coming out was so hot it melted a hole in the air hose....

lgottler
July 18th, 2006, 09:10 AM
I converted my AC to OBA. The unit I have uses hard lines about 2' before and after the unit, then goes to rubber lines. I put in order: Intake filter, oiler, compressor, oil separator/filter, manifold, tank. I picked up a pressure switch from McMaster-Carr, make sure it has a pressure relief valve, or whatever they call it that relieves line pressure from the compressor. It just makes sure your compressor, when you turn it on again, has no resistance to start, otherwise you might run into issues where your belt squeels on start up.

I use mine alot! Everytime I remove my H1 rims, I use it to power the impact gun, so 8 lug rims, 8 bolts on the beadlocks for each tire. Never an issue. I just keep WD30 in the oiler and only need to fill it maybe once every other time I use the impact gun heavily. I tuned the oiler on MAX, I didn't want to have any issue with it. My hoses coming off the compressor are warm, but never hot, don't know if it has to do with the amount of oil I put through it or not, but it works great.

I put a lighted switch on my dash that controls both the pressure switch and the AC clutch power.

Good luck!

Lucas

Bult4mud
July 18th, 2006, 10:01 AM
I run a ULTIMATE AIR as well
but am still thinking about a belt driven unit for when the CO2 runsout

kb8ymf
July 18th, 2006, 11:52 AM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lgottler &#064; Jul 18 2006, 09&#58;10 AM) 15805</div>

I converted my AC to OBA. The unit I have uses hard lines about 2&#39; before and after the unit, then goes to rubber lines. I put in order: Intake filter, oiler, compressor, oil separator/filter, manifold, tank. I picked up a pressure switch from McMaster-Carr, make sure it has a pressure relief valve, or whatever they call it that relieves line pressure from the compressor. It just makes sure your compressor, when you turn it on again, has no resistance to start, otherwise you might run into issues where your belt squeels on start up.

I use mine alot&#33; Everytime I remove my H1 rims, I use it to power the impact gun, so 8 lug rims, 8 bolts on the beadlocks for each tire. Never an issue. I just keep WD30 in the oiler and only need to fill it maybe once every other time I use the impact gun heavily. I tuned the oiler on MAX, I didn&#39;t want to have any issue with it. My hoses coming off the compressor are warm, but never hot, don&#39;t know if it has to do with the amount of oil I put through it or not, but it works great.

I put a lighted switch on my dash that controls both the pressure switch and the AC clutch power.

Good luck&#33;

Lucas
[/b]

So, add up all the costs associated with each system. How do they stack up?
Also, I&#39;m including the &#39;portability&#39; of the UA certainly adds to the value to.
j-kb8ymf

95geo
July 18th, 2006, 12:17 PM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kb8ymf &#064; Jul 18 2006, 11&#58;52 AM) 15810</div>


So, add up all the costs associated with each system. How do they stack up?
Also, I&#39;m including the &#39;portability&#39; of the UA certainly adds to the value to.
j-kb8ymf
[/b]

and OBA never runs out

lgottler
July 18th, 2006, 01:41 PM
I really think it depends on the user. Some have different expectations and requirements than others.

Personally, I used a Nitrogen tank, a CO2 tank, a 12volt compressor and now my AC unit. For me the tanks didn&#39;t fit my use. I wheel in the winter in the UP and the one time I tried it up there, -5 deg F, the head froze up after one tire. I also don&#39;t have much room inside my Jeep, so the tanks were awkward for me to carry. The 12 volt one I had just didn&#39;t have the volume to do much but air a tire up at one time, then wait for it to refill the tank. I&#39;d like a York, but I decided to try my AC first, I would have to purchase all the same stuff, just minus brackets and the York.

The tanks allow portability, but honestly, I would only use the impact gun on my tires, and chances are if my Jeep doesn&#39;t run, I won&#39;t be worried about changing a tire by hand vs. impact&#33; But being able to take a tank to another vehicle would be a benefit, on PIW 2 years ago, I had to turn around and maneuver myself closer to Dave to fill his tire up (before we found the sidewall tear&#33;) I mainly want air for filling up tires, reseating beads and blowing off elec. or parts of dirt etc...

Cost, my OBA was around 90 bucks. The filter, oiler, reg was a set. The switch was about 25. I stole a manifold from a gov&#39;t job we did at the shop and I welded up my own 7 gallon tank.

Lucas

kb8ymf
July 18th, 2006, 02:15 PM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lgottler &#064; Jul 18 2006, 01&#58;41 PM) 15815</div>

Cost, my OBA was around 90 bucks. The filter, oiler, reg was a set. The switch was about 25. I stole a manifold from a gov&#39;t job we did at the shop and I welded up my own 7 gallon tank.
Lucas
[/b]

Again I&#39;m talking about REAL COSTS, not where you get this an that for free. Finally, &#39;welded up my own 7 gallon tank&#39;
No offense Lucas, but that has to be as dangerous as hooking two straps together with clevise&#33; Every pressure holding vessel is tested to ASME stds. Even look at your propane tanks, they get pressure tested every ? 5 or ? 10 years. Failing tanks get destroyed. Even if you don&#39;t keep pressure in it all the time an explosion of a tank will result in someone getting hurt. Cycling pressure is more dangerous that keeping constant pressure all the time.

As far as OBA not running out. How much use do you actually need? Won&#39;t a HP air tank suffice for 90+% of all your needs? How many tires do you need to fill up? I&#39;m just saying the OBA requires more constant maintenance than air tanks, has more potential for leaks due to the number of connections and is generally heavier that an air tank considering all the parts and pieces involved.

Taking it to the extreme shouldn&#39;t we carry two spare tires then and not just one? If one gets a hole in it, we&#39;ll need a second just to be safe.
j-kb8ymf

95geo
July 18th, 2006, 03:34 PM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kb8ymf &#064; Jul 18 2006, 02&#58;15 PM) 15817</div>



Taking it to the extreme shouldn&#39;t we carry two spare tires then and not just one? If one gets a hole in it, we&#39;ll need a second just to be safe.
j-kb8ymf
[/b]

or you could just carry a patch/plug kit and a tube with your air source of choice


:thumb-up:

CheapthrillB2
July 18th, 2006, 04:18 PM
i just set up my Explorer with OBA, i used the existing compressor, i got a one way presseure valve right after the compressor, i tried it without the valve and my compressor got hot, with the valve the compressor barely got warm, i use a 2.5 gallon tank, and about a total length of 8 ft of hose, and i filled my tank to 100psi in less then a minute at idle, i brought it with me to silver lake, and used it to air my tires back up, along with many others through out the day while we were their, i didn&#39;t run into any probs with it, that one way valve made a huge difference in the way it performed,

uncleedsjeep
July 18th, 2006, 08:37 PM
Wow Lots of great input. I considered an air tank. In fact I looked a lot of thenm at air supply houses. I thought the &#036;&#036; were high. So decided to try the OBA with the exisitng A/C. I&#39;ll keep you posted on the progress as I go forward.
Ed

lgottler
July 18th, 2006, 10:24 PM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kb8ymf &#064; Jul 18 2006, 02&#58;15 PM) 15817</div>


Again I&#39;m talking about REAL COSTS, not where you get this an that for free. Finally, &#39;welded up my own 7 gallon tank&#39;
No offense Lucas, but that has to be as dangerous as hooking two straps together with clevise&#33; Every pressure holding vessel is tested to ASME stds. Even look at your propane tanks, they get pressure tested every ? 5 or ? 10 years. Failing tanks get destroyed. Even if you don&#39;t keep pressure in it all the time an explosion of a tank will result in someone getting hurt. Cycling pressure is more dangerous that keeping constant pressure all the time.

j-kb8ymf
[/b]

I can see your point, but I figured I took some precautions. I pressure tested it to 190 psi, I figured if it will take that then it will take my 115psi from the OBA. I am still looking for a tank, but I don&#39;t want to buy one until I get the gas tank squared away. I&#39;ll end up buying a round one with a bunch of ports on it, saw one in a mag not too long ago, need it long, say 3&#39;, but only like 5" diameter...

The actual cost for my OBA was 90 bucks, add 10 for a manifold and say 30 for a "real" tank, put in another 10 for some cheap hose, 15 for a few fittings, so say under 200 bucks to convert your existing AC to an OBA system. You never have to refill it, never really run out....

When I had Nitrogen and CO2, I just got the rusty tanks from our welding shop. Picked up a high flow regulator and some coil hose. The initial cost was the refill, I already had a tank of Oxy someone gave me (empty and out of date, but exchanged it for a tank anyways), the 15 dollar coil hose, and the 45 regulator. I have no idea what UA costs as far as tank, handle, regulator, anyone? So, someone could get a tank for say 75 bucks on the cheap and have air on the trail.

Now a York setup, brackets, York compressor......Kilby?

Lucas

CheapthrillB2
July 18th, 2006, 11:12 PM
i have maybe &#036;50 dollars tops, hit up harbor frieght for all fittings and oiler/dryer, got the one way valve from NAPA, and got my air tank from an old tire machine my work was scraping, i have seen a few fire extingquisers converted to air tanks, i had the air line fron an old line that blew on me in my garage, that got choppped up into lengths for the system

Renegade II
July 18th, 2006, 11:21 PM
Any reason (besides cost) no one is using Viair?

http://www.viaircorp.com/480c.html

MuddyPaws
July 19th, 2006, 02:30 AM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Renegade II &#064; Jul 18 2006, 11&#58;21 PM) 15834</div>

Any reason (besides cost) no one is using Viair?

http://www.viaircorp.com/480c.html
[/b]

I have seen a few on the trails and so far...now this is just what I have heard from the owners....none of the owners I have talked to are truely happy with the performance of these. Look at the stats...you have to buy the top notch one for a gazillion bucks to get anything close to a 100% duty cycle on the pumps. All the owners I have talked to say they overheat before they can fill all their tires from 15 to 30 psi.


Now, just this past spring, I was behind Kerry Ann and Mike and they popped a bead on Drummond at Trutle Ridge. They were in a really awkward spot to get to...I was still down in a swamp and they had just came up and out and around a bend. With the rocks and trees, it would have been hard to get to them for a OBA setup if I didn&#39;t carry a long hose.

I have the UA tank mounted on the rear swing out...so I popped it out of it&#39;s holder and walked up to them and put the bead back on.

I have used the UA for all kinds of crap including using it for shielding gas for the mig welder in a pinch.

RockyTop
July 19th, 2006, 08:10 AM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Renegade II &#064; Jul 18 2006, 11&#58;21 PM) 15834</div>

Any reason (besides cost) no one is using Viair?

http://www.viaircorp.com/480c.html
[/b]

I want to say Bult4Mud uses them for his TJ. He also has an Ultimate Air tank.

Deathdealer
July 19th, 2006, 10:10 AM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RockyTop &#064; Jul 19 2006, 08&#58;10 AM) 15844</div>

I want to say Bult4Mud uses them for his TJ. He also has an Ultimate Air tank.
[/b]

No he doesn&#39;t. That was an ARB pump you heard.

kb8ymf
July 19th, 2006, 10:49 AM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lgottler &#064; Jul 18 2006, 09&#58;10 AM) 15805</div>

I converted my AC to OBA.
[/b]

So I guess you&#39;ll never be doing summertime wheeling. I know people who would have killed for A/C on our last outing&#33; Not to mention dust and dirt ingestion. Right J.K, P.K, KM???? :thumb-up:
j-kb8ymf

Brian81CJ
July 20th, 2006, 07:16 AM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lgottler &#064; Jul 18 2006, 10&#58;24 PM) 15832</div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kb8ymf &#064; Jul 18 2006, 02&#58;15 PM) 15817


Again I&#39;m talking about REAL COSTS, not where you get this an that for free. Finally, &#39;welded up my own 7 gallon tank&#39;
No offense Lucas, but that has to be as dangerous as hooking two straps together with clevise&#33; Every pressure holding vessel is tested to ASME stds. Even look at your propane tanks, they get pressure tested every ? 5 or ? 10 years. Failing tanks get destroyed. Even if you don&#39;t keep pressure in it all the time an explosion of a tank will result in someone getting hurt. Cycling pressure is more dangerous that keeping constant pressure all the time.

j-kb8ymf
[/b]

I can see your point, but I figured I took some precautions. I pressure tested it to 190 psi, I figured if it will take that then it will take my 115psi from the OBA. I am still looking for a tank, but I don&#39;t want to buy one until I get the gas tank squared away. I&#39;ll end up buying a round one with a bunch of ports on it, saw one in a mag not too long ago, need it long, say 3&#39;, but only like 5" diameter...

The actual cost for my OBA was 90 bucks, add 10 for a manifold and say 30 for a "real" tank, put in another 10 for some cheap hose, 15 for a few fittings, so say under 200 bucks to convert your existing AC to an OBA system. You never have to refill it, never really run out....

When I had Nitrogen and CO2, I just got the rusty tanks from our welding shop. Picked up a high flow regulator and some coil hose. The initial cost was the refill, I already had a tank of Oxy someone gave me (empty and out of date, but exchanged it for a tank anyways), the 15 dollar coil hose, and the 45 regulator. I have no idea what UA costs as far as tank, handle, regulator, anyone? So, someone could get a tank for say 75 bucks on the cheap and have air on the trail.

Now a York setup, brackets, York compressor......Kilby?

Lucas
[/b][/quote]

Hi Lucas,

Sorry I&#39;m a little late here&#33; As far as what an Ultimate Air system costs; a 10lb 150psi system with plastic handle, hose, air chuck, bracket retails for &#036;239. GLFWDA members get 10% off and free shipping&#33;

Like Jim M. said, "portability" is a big advantage as well as ease of installation over the belt driven systems... and you can keep your AC&#33; Another advantage is there is virtually no maintenance with CO2 systems, just keep it clean. Sure there is always the possibility of running out of CO2... there is also the same possibility of your belt driven system failing, leaving you without air as well... At least with the CO2, you know when your getting close to running out...

Brian

lgottler
July 20th, 2006, 10:26 AM
So cost wise, the two systems are about the same. One can do either type of system really cheap or really expensive depending on what you want and what you want to spend.

So, it simply comes down to a system that suits your needs along with what you can live with and what you can&#39;t.

CO2 Tank:
Pros: Portable, Virtually zero maintenance, Instant 100% psi (no recovery time), Full use of AC equipment

Cons: Size (inside or on tire rack), Cost of refills.


OBA Engine Driven:
Pros: Size (underengine & underframe), Unlimited air supply

Cons: Non portable, Moving parts may wear, Engine must run, Recovery time on some systems, If used AC then no AC in vehicle, Must add oil

OBA Electric:
Pros: Size

Cons: Recovery time, Duty Cycle


Anything else?


For me AC wasn&#39;t an issue. I went 2 years without using my AC. If its hot I usually don&#39;t have doors on it and I don&#39;t have a rear window, so I had never needed it. The condenser was a PITA because it ALWAYS go loaded up with mud, leaves sticks, etc...I had to pull my Radiator to clean out inbetween it after every mud run. So, going without AC helped my after trip maintenance&#33; So, like I said before, it is up to the user, not one system will suit everyones needs. I didn&#39;t care for the CO2, didn&#39;t suit my needs, OBA using AC has.

Lucas

jeepguy74
July 21st, 2006, 02:11 AM
im about to do a oba with a ac pump what i am looking for is how to do it i have herd many ideas but no diagram or how to any help would be great

uncleedsjeep
July 21st, 2006, 12:55 PM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Renegade II &#064; Jul 18 2006, 11&#58;21 PM) 15834</div>

Any reason (besides cost) no one is using Viair?

http://www.viaircorp.com/480c.html
[/b]

I looked at this system, but I am cheap and did not want ot spend the &#036;&#036;&#036;&#036;&#036;&#036;. Could be the wrong choice. We will see.
Ed

Nvrenuf
July 21st, 2006, 07:30 PM
I know a guy that has a Viair system. I&#39;m not sure the exact model, it seems to take forever to fill the tank then it starts running again very soon. It was better then waiting in line at the dunes though.

I have one of the Ultimate Air CO2 tanks and love it and find all kinds of other thing to use it on.

Bult4mud
August 15th, 2006, 01:07 PM
DD and RT

you are both right

Ive got a Viair under my seat for tires ect and ive got a ARB under my hood for my lockers ect id like to plumb them to a tank i just keep forgetting to


i also have the ULTIMATE AIR which i LOVE


for the record however the new fitting takes a little cleaning after sand runs