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View Full Version : Success Story : Land Use Permits for Club Trail Rides (i.e. SB50)



TWEAK
September 23rd, 2014, 09:19 PM
Today we were finally able wrap up the last remaining item on getting what was SB50 (now PA 119 of 2013) correctly implemented. As you may know if you followed along with SB50 that was passed in September of 2013, there were legislative changes in regards to when a permit would be required for “events” on state land. In the past, if there were more than 20 participants in a club trail ride (people, not vehicles) you would have been required to fill out a permit… many times costing more than $500.

The new legislation put in place by SB50 removes the requirement if it is just organized trail rides, but there were many delays in getting this new policy implemented. As such, a number of club trail rides such as SnoFari and Snoblind were required this year to still fill out and pay for permits.

After a lot of back and forth discussion between many different parties, the draft permit policy was approved at the July MSTAC meeting. The policy still has triggers where a permit is needed (i.e. off-route/trail access, staging area requirements, Commercial event, etc) but there is no permit required for a club based event that is using trails/routes/roads that they legally have access to and are open.

So going back to what finally happened today – we finally got approval that the SnoFari and SnoBlind event would have not required a permit and as such will be reimbursed for their permits! Getting the permit back for this year is nice, but it is a huge step forward as it sets precedence that permits are not needed for “events” like these that are organized by clubs and held on legally open trails. :thumb:

WhiteRhino
September 23rd, 2014, 09:32 PM
Nice work Rob.

Ms.ZJ
September 23rd, 2014, 09:56 PM
Outstanding!!! :yourock:

DDS4X4
September 23rd, 2014, 10:08 PM
GREAT news :thumb:

Tab
September 23rd, 2014, 10:12 PM
Well done to all that were involved!

phittie1100
September 23rd, 2014, 10:16 PM
Thank you for staying after this Rob, GREAT NEWS!!

Ironman Offroad
September 24th, 2014, 06:12 AM
Great news!!!!! Thanks for all the effort.

shawn
September 24th, 2014, 06:31 AM
Awesome! Very helpful. No permit fees. And no bond money? This helps a lot.

kb8ymf
September 24th, 2014, 06:36 AM
Today we were finally able wrap up the last remaining item on getting what was SB50 (now PA 119 of 2013) correctly implemented. As you may know if you followed along with SB50 that was passed in September of 2013, there were legislative changes in regards to when a permit would be required for “events” on state land. In the past, if there were more than 20 participants in a club trail ride (people, not vehicles) you would have been required to fill out a permit… many times costing more than $500.

The new legislation put in place by SB50 removes the requirement if it is just organized trail rides, but there were many delays in getting this new policy implemented. As such, a number of club trail rides such as SnoFari and Snoblind were required this year to still fill out and pay for permits.

After a lot of back and forth discussion between many different parties, the draft permit policy was approved at the July MSTAC meeting. The policy still has triggers where a permit is needed (i.e. off-route/trail access, staging area requirements, Commercial event, etc) but there is no permit required for a club based event that is using trails/routes/roads that they legally have access to and are open.

So going back to what finally happened today – we finally got approval that the SnoFari and SnoBlind event would have not required a permit and as such will be reimbursed for their permits! Getting the permit back for this year is nice, but it is a huge step forward as it sets precedence that permits are not needed for “events” like these that are organized by clubs and held on legally open trails. :thumb:

So does the 'flow chart' accurately walk a group through the process of 'do they need a permit' or not?

If so, we should make that part of GLFWDA's contribution to simplifying the beauracratic/legalease confusion that abounds most every state agency.

jim-kb8ymf

Jarhead
September 24th, 2014, 07:06 AM
Awesome, Just AWESOME!

fsumotorhead
September 24th, 2014, 07:21 AM
Great news!

Thanks for the hard work!

RiverwalkPlace
September 24th, 2014, 07:44 AM
Today we were finally able wrap up the last remaining item on getting what was SB50 (now PA 119 of 2013) correctly implemented. As you may know if you followed along with SB50 that was passed in September of 2013, there were legislative changes in regards to when a permit would be required for “events” on state land. In the past, if there were more than 20 participants in a club trail ride (people, not vehicles) you would have been required to fill out a permit… many times costing more than $500.

The new legislation put in place by SB50 removes the requirement if it is just organized trail rides, but there were many delays in getting this new policy implemented. As such, a number of club trail rides such as SnoFari and Snoblind were required this year to still fill out and pay for permits.

After a lot of back and forth discussion between many different parties, the draft permit policy was approved at the July MSTAC meeting. The policy still has triggers where a permit is needed (i.e. off-route/trail access, staging area requirements, Commercial event, etc) but there is no permit required for a club based event that is using trails/routes/roads that they legally have access to and are open.

So going back to what finally happened today – we finally got approval that the SnoFari and SnoBlind event would have not required a permit and as such will be reimbursed for their permits! Getting the permit back for this year is nice, but it is a huge step forward as it sets precedence that permits are not needed for “events” like these that are organized by clubs and held on legally open trails. :thumb:

FYI The Jeep Creep was given permission from the DNR for our Guided Trail Ride to operate on the Denton ORV Trails without a permit since we don't charge for that portion of the event. I appreciate all your efforts as it allows us to offer more to the Jeepers who attend Jeep Creep. =) ~Meghan

TWEAK
September 24th, 2014, 09:15 AM
So does the 'flow chart' accurately walk a group through the process of 'do they need a permit' or not?

If so, we should make that part of GLFWDA's contribution to simplifying the beauracratic/legalease confusion that abounds most every state agency.

jim-kb8ymf

The final draft has not been published yet and I haven't heard any feedback on the "flow chart" that was sent over. I agree that it is very useful in making the decision tree easier to follow - once it it published I say we push on it again, but to the folks that actually handle the permits day in and day out... The folks that we have been involved with so far really are just working to get the policy better then it was (which is not an easy task when working with all the different departments within the DNR).

TWEAK
September 24th, 2014, 09:18 AM
Awesome! Very helpful. No permit fees. And no bond money? This helps a lot.

Correct - no more permit fees and no bond money, and you guys (for SnoFari) should be getting some/all of your fees back for what was paid in for the 2014 SnoFari year. :thumb: This is good as well as the base fee prices will be going up now as well for permits.

It is suggested by the DNR that they be notified when larger events that don't require a permit will be held so that they can "manage" the forest. Much of this is to make other groups that might need to have permits aware of whats going on... they can't stop you from going out, but try to prevent lots of congestion. But this is just a suggestion, not a requirement.

WhiteRhino
September 24th, 2014, 11:06 AM
I see no need to notify them of anything we are doing. In fact, I think it opens a Pandora's box if we do. I don't really care what other groups are doing in the woods, nor do I want them worrying about me. The prime example is that they tried to tell me I couldn't be on a snowmobile trail/seasonal/forest road because of Tip up town, 20 miles away and there might be drunk riders on the trails. That is not my problem to manage. The further we can stay below the radar, the better.

We are still trying to get all of the funds refunded. They seem to think that since they were overwhelmed at the time they were doing the review that they should be able to keep all the money. I expect this to play out over the next few weeks. I am about ready to hint at legal action.

I can say this; Rob has done an outstanding job of staying on top of this and keeping to the high road. He certainly contains his temper better than me. LOL
Great job Rob!

2TrakR
September 24th, 2014, 01:31 PM
I see no need to notify them of anything we are doing. In fact, I think it opens a Pandora's box if we do.

Whole heartedly agree. In theory, notifying the DNR and them being able to manage the forest, man that is great. In practice, in reality, in my personal experience:

1. DNR does not know what is going on.
2. DNR does not inform permitted events of other functions (regardless of permit or size).
3. DNR will blame permitted event for activities that are unrelated to that event (from other group or individual).

#3 is where "don't voluntarily tell them" makes the most sense.

And of course, #4: Next year the DNR will block every road used and clear cut any remaining timber in the area in the name of "forest management" simultaneously removing any recreational value from that land.