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phazer42
April 14th, 2014, 05:29 PM
So I went to go and pick up my new 2014 ORV permit today.... Only to find out it went up 220%! Now you have to have a ORV permit AND a TRAIL permit. The ORV Permit is to provide a license to ride on non-private property, and the Trail permit is an add-on permit for state designated trails.

ORV $26.25
Trail $10.00
Total $36.25 (or roughly 220% more than last year!)

I have been a little out of the politics end of the sport for a bit but wasn't expecting to see the hike of that magnitude.

hemrides
April 14th, 2014, 06:06 PM
I'm sure we can expect a 220% improvement in services and trails from the state!

Gogolen
April 14th, 2014, 07:31 PM
http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-10363_14518_65243-305352--,00.html

Found a nifty chart showing what you need what permit for.

WhiteRhino
April 15th, 2014, 11:40 AM
Just out of curiosity, do you know how long it has been since it was last raised and what the inflation has been since then? You may find that you have been getting a hell of a deal for several years.

phittie1100
April 15th, 2014, 12:40 PM
Copy and paste from GL4x4 http://www.greatlakes4x4.com/showpost.php?p=3665442&postcount=31

FISCAL IMPACT:
The increase in fees under the bill's provisions is anticipated to generate approximately
$2.7 million annually in additional restricted funding. ORV license fees are
constitutionally required to be deposited into ORV-related restricted funds. From each
ORV license fee, $1 is deposited into the ORV Safety Education Fund which was created
by PA 17 of 1991 and is incorporated in Part 811 of NREPA. The Fund is used for ORV
safety education courses for youths under the age of 16. In addition, $0.25 from each
license is retained as a commission by the seller of the license. The remainder of the
license fee is deposited into the ORV Trail Improvement Fund which was created by PA
71 of 1990 and is now also incorporated within Part 811 of NREPA.
Expenditures from the ORV Trail Improvement Fund may be used for the improvement,
maintenance, and construction of ORV trails, leasing of land, restoration efforts from
ORV damage on public lands, and account administration. In FY 2012, the ORV Safety
Education Fund received approximately $197,000 in revenue from license sales and the
ORV Trail Improvement Fund received approximately $3.3 million
(borrowed from another website)

I can never find the e-mail when I am looking for it, but the money that goes into the ORV Fund has a further breakdown into trail maintenance/improvement grants, law enforcement, damage mitigation, and administrative costs.

I won't dig it all up again, but we have had numerous e-pissing matches about this over the past few years.

1. ORV Fund had a surplus
2. State legislature said go fix the trails, and go make new ones
3. DNR started fixing trails and adding new ones, while the price of the trail permit remained the same, surplus slowly spent down
4. Numerous meetings and work groups met to help guide the process of getting a new ORV fee rate proposed and approved.
5. Legislation proposed, legislation introduced, legislation died; Legialsation 2 proposed, dead on arrival.
6. ORV fund broke
7. Legislation 3 proposed, introduced, passed.

Frankly, I am not sure who came up with the two-tiered fee thing - the original plan we (representatives from CCC, ATV & GLFWDA) helped the DNR develop back in 2009 was for either $30 or $32, can't remember, but one price for one permit.

DieselMTU
April 15th, 2014, 04:28 PM
The out of state guys have been really confused when they want to go to Silver Lake and Ride trails... 3 stickers. Passport + ORV Trail + ORV

phazer42
April 15th, 2014, 10:46 PM
The out of state guys have been really confused when they want to go to Silver Lake and Ride trails... 3 stickers. Passport + ORV Trail + ORV

I could be wrong but I don't think that a "trail" permit would be required for the Sand Dunes. Technically its an ORV Park not "State Designated Trails"

At least that's how I read it.

phazer42
April 15th, 2014, 10:50 PM
Just out of curiosity, do you know how long it has been since it was last raised and what the inflation has been since then? You may find that you have been getting a hell of a deal for several years.

While this may be true, its been a long time since they changed the rate - however, a dramatic increase like this doesn't "attract" people, rather it makes people want to continue riding trails without payment. Hunting licenses changed as well. Just doesn't do good things for the sport if you ask me.

hemrides
April 16th, 2014, 02:11 PM
Just out of curiosity, do you know how long it has been since it was last raised and what the inflation has been since then? You may find that you have been getting a hell of a deal for several years.

Hi WhiteRhino...sorry don't know your name,

Yep...It has been a couple decades...maybe more. But the issue is the amount and type or increases. Like most government agencies they make it complex for something that is very simple. A small increase would have been acceptable, but the mess and process they create is unacceptable. Same as the public meetings are held in the middle of the week, middle of the day. One example of they want, we give. Like all governments I know there is waste in the ORV process, and instead of fixing that and applying a reasonable increase we get the double whammy. You and I don't have the ability to double our income, nor should the government. You look at your income, figure out the true needs, and adjust...accounting 101.

I'm a bit surprised that you posted this comment...not a slam...just an observation.

My 2,
Dave

Jarhead
April 16th, 2014, 02:53 PM
Just out of curiosity, do you know how long it has been since it was last raised and what the inflation has been since then? You may find that you have been getting a hell of a deal for several years.

Yup, Michigan last raised its ORV license fee from $10 to $16.25 in 1996.

While it may now seem a bit outrageous, I have to side with Jim in that we have gotten a pretty good deal for a number of years. Do I prefer they heeded our (GLFWDA) advice and apply the fee increase to a single permit/license; yes.

Jarhead
April 16th, 2014, 02:59 PM
The one advantage we have is we are an All Season vehicle (or should I say land use user).

The Michigan Department of Natural Resources increased the snowmobile permit fees for the 2011 season to $45, an increase of $10 over the 2010 price. The fee will be $45 through the 2015 snowmobile season. A state law signed in 2008 provided for the incremental increase in snowmobile trail fees, which support maintenance and grooming of the state's snowmobile trail network.

hemrides
April 17th, 2014, 01:35 PM
Well...It will be interesting to see if the dollars raised will increase or if this pushes people to stop riding.

Not sure if this was discussed, but there are a lot of states that require non-residents to buy a permit to ride. Last I knew Michigan does not. This would be a good way to raise more $$$ for ORV concerns and help keep the cost down for residents. I still need to see the budget to agree with a fee increase that was applied. I've killed the horse so it's time to go...hope all have a good and safe riding season.

Does the DNR post their ORV budget, and is it still the case that the clubs that get the trail cleanup funds do not have to verify how it is spent?

hemrides
April 17th, 2014, 02:01 PM
When we get machines that regularly groom our trails, we have the political pull, etc. then I might be willing to say the increase is worth it. Please don't try to use an increase for some other group or issue as a justification for this increase. Heck...next you will tell me that I can keep my doctor!!

DDS4X4
April 18th, 2014, 06:28 PM
Dave,

I know you mean no offense and I suspect Jim (WhiteRino) will take none, but in agreement with Jim & Bob (Jarhead), this has been coming and discussed at the state level for a long time. Is it all that GLFWDA wanted, No, any surprise to the users, No. As an out-of-state user, it's a bummer and Yes, confusing, but what else is new? As an out-of-state user, ever try to figure out what is a legal trail and what is not? Thus I stick with the organized groups that are in the know, I trust. :) But thanks for your comments, we are all entitled to our comments and we appreciate hearing from all our members.

Doug

hemrides
April 18th, 2014, 08:48 PM
Doug,

There is no offense taken with anyone, and I don't mean to beat a dead horse. There is a lot of waste in the ORV side, two many hands in the pot and not a lot to show for it. I attended a number of meetings in the late 90's and early 2000's and saw the political posturing take place. All the money given to clubs for trail maintenance should have to be accounted for....not just hand out a pot of money and say have at it. For the state to take this long, double the fees and not show the details for the money is not right. We will agree to disagree...I'm not a political creature...There are more ways to help offset this increase and we the MI residents will get stuck with the bill.


See ya,
Dave

DDS4X4
April 18th, 2014, 09:30 PM
No disagreement with your position and better accountability should be expected when one spends taxpayers or user fee dollars!

Rocky
May 10th, 2014, 04:09 AM
I've also been in the political aspect of ORVing in some capacity since 1999 and have seen 1st hand the waste and deceit that comes from within some of those in the DNR who are responsible for our sport. Such things like payouts to grant sponsors for sub-standard ORV trail maintenance, rescinding ORV Administrative Rules and running the ORV safety education program in complete violation of the Administrative Procedures Act, which REQUIRES government agencies to run their programs within the rules of this Act. And no other State in the USA has a system of trails that is more ''confusing'' to understand for newer riders than the State of Michigan. We have about 200k paid ORV stickers sold each year, and of this 200k, I would venture to say that about 6-7k make-up ORV club members of some capacity. In Dr Charles Nelsons last ORV survey [ about 2010 ], 65% of the ORVers who were surveyed, did not support a ORV fee increase. This means that the few 6-7% club members from the 200k user base who went to the legislature for this fee increase, are damn near running the show for the rest of the 194k ORV user base. Get use to it, if you stay by the way-side and do nothing but ride your ORV and dont get involved, this is what you get. Until we get a organized and well established ''watch group'' of ORV users who have finally decided that they are not going to put-up with this waste and deceit anymore, we get what we get.