ORV Advisory meeting

[Creative Fab]

The ORV Advisory board meeting held this past wed. night was nothing out of the ordinary as far as the main focus was concerned.

These should be called ATV/ Motorcycle meetings due to that being the topic discussed.

The only fullsize or "Route" dicussion was about a section of route in the Gladwin system that they are planning to repair using Geo cloth and a block type of filler along with a culvert to fill in a wet area. That is so we do not get our show 4x4's dirty by using one of the routes our ORV stickers pays for.

The improvements that the DNR has proposed for the Gladwin system (consisting moslty of 50" trail) include fixing areas damaged by high water levels this past spring. Some small decking over wet spots were damaged. There are only a handfull of these items and few places where they want to move some sections of trail. These few items are estimated to cost our ORV fund an enormous sum of $485,000

I dont know about you all but I would do it with a shovel and a hammer and nails for about half that!

$485,000 would build a nice ORV park not fix a couple of bad spots in a 50" trail.

Let us know your opinion on this by responding here.

Pat Kinne
Pres. GLFWDA
1-888-705-8683

[WhiteRhino]

It certainly seems rediculous!
It amazes me that our state receives over $1.4 million annully from the federal government for ORV improvements and we can't even get a simple rock garden installed at St. Helen!

[PeteC]

I would still like to know who makes the decisions on the board members and who we have to talk to in order to get full size representation on this board. Just coming in with a few people representing only a couple of hundred others just does not seem to be getting us anywhere.

[Vader5]

Agreed Pete. We do need better fullsize representation. If the trail rules applied to hunters in their trucks during hunting seasons the same way they apply to us with our orv stickers, we'd have a lot better representation. I've got nothing against hunters, but they are given a pretty loose leash with their trucks and orv's during hunting season, and the leash just keeps getting tighter for us full size ORV guys. I know I'm preaching to the chior, but if the hunters had to live by our rules, we'd have their support and they'd be screaming loudly for more access. :blink:

[WhiteRhino]

Paul,
You are right. I had given a pretty detailed break down on MJ about revenue. It is all about the $$$$.
Keep this in mind: the hunters add alot of $$ to the state.

We bring NOTHING!!! I repeat........NOTHING!

When our state is working with a deficit, aren't we a little overly optimistic to think that they will listen to us when compared to all the user groups that pay extra to use the land?

I shudder to say this, but if there was a requirement for full size vehicles to pay to use the forest roads, we would suddenly attract more attention at the state level. Especially if the hunters got lumped into our classification. But as long as our liscense plate is the only thing we need, I am afraid that we will never get additional attention.

Scarey, eh?

[Roadhouse]

I don't even want to get started on how mad this makes me. It makes me think even more about selling my Jeep and getting a boat.

[Creative Fab]

I need to clarify one thing about these meetings. My inntial post sounded like the bike and quad guys get all of the attention and that is only partly true. Meaning that if the DNR were to do something we (users in general) wanted them to do it would still be for the quad and bike guys.

The discussion is usually about the quad and bikes but that isnts to say they are being heard. The advisory board is made up of a mixture of users, enviromental, law enforcement and a member at large.

Currently there are only 2 users, both AMA members. There is one enviro and he is from MUCC. The law enforcement spot is empty as is the member at large. And there is a gal from the Motorcycle Dealers Assoc.

Not one of these folks is getting heard either, one of the gentleman from the AMA has to drive from the UP and he is asking himself why he bothers when the DNR does want they want to anyway regardless of the "advice" the advisory board might give them.

The DNR has taken over the safety training for quads and bikes from the Dept. of Education. Since them taking over this user funded program last year they have not tought one student. But they have a lot of money in the bank to collect interest while the young folks continue to suffer and the instructors from user groups and safety institutes are without kids to instruct. This is why I said that the focus of the last meeting was all about the bikes and quads. The quad and bike guys have beat this issue to death at the last couple of meetings with no results from the DNR.

[Vader5]

Thanks for the clarification Pat.

To reply to White Rhino's post.

We do pay extra to use the forest roads if we buy ORV stickers and have extra vehicals we pay registration on every year. And I would pay more as long as the trails were marked as well as the snowmobile trails. Out of state snowmobilers only pay for a $20.00 trail permit to ride on our Michigan trails. I'd pay $40.00 a year to be able to ride on half as many trails they have in my Jeep.

[brewmenn]

Originally posted by WhiteRhino@Aug 18 2004, 06:37 PM
We bring NOTHING!!! I repeat........NOTHING!

I have the same ORV sticker on my Jeep that every ATV and bike has. I paid the same fee. But they get to ride many miles of trails with it, I only get to go to 4 places with mine.

We gave the same amount to the state,but I get far less for it.

If that $16 isn't bringing enough to give us what we want raise it. You pay more than that for a single weekend at the badlands. I think Tellico was $5 a day. I would not have any problem with paying $25 or even $50 a year or more if it allowed me to go on some good trails without having to drive hundreds of miles out of state.

[Vader5]

Can I get an "AMEN!!!!!!!!!" for Brewmenn's last post.

[WhiteRhino]

You guys are missing my point.
Currently, for a full size vehicle that is liscensed and street legal, you DO NOT need and ORV sticker to drive on 2-tracks.
You only need it to go to Silver Lake, Bull Gap, St Helen Motor Sport area and the official ORV routes.
So, when Pat is talking to people in Lansing about full size users complaining about forest roads being closed, there is no revenue that the state is losing.
Think about this:
When a family of 4 uses their quads, the state gets 4 x $16 or $64.
When that same family of 4 takes the wife's grand cherokee & drives around on trails, there is NOT a requirement for an ORV sticker. No $$$
So, when they chase the money trail, we don't offer one!

[brewmenn]

And I'm saying that I'd pay $64 a year if it would allow me to go on the number and type of trails that are avalible to ATV's.

I'm bringing to the state everything thier asking but am getting little in return compared to the other users.


I go buy my sticker and it allows me to go to Silver Lake (if I also pay to get into the state park), St. Helens, Bull Gap, and if I also pay my $8 entrance fee the Mounds. (You do NOT need an ORV sticker to drive a SOS licenced vehicle on an ORV route)
An ATV rider goes and buys the same piece of plastic and it allows him to take him ATV everywhere I take my Jeep, plus he gets to go on hundreds of miles of trails and routes that he couldn't go on otherwise.

[Vader5]

Don't forget the registration fee many of us pay every year for vehicles we use mainly on the trails. Maybe we should request a special licence plate with additional registration fee's for our trail rigs that allows us to go to the ORV places listed in the post above plus funds trail maintenance and gives us access to any orv route that is wide enough for our traill rigs. They have olympic plates, college plates, etc. that donate money to a given organization. Why not a fullsize ORV plate that shows our support for the trails and supply's funds without littering our windows with decals :D We need all the space we can get for our GL, United, Tread Lightly, MJ and club stickers.

Is this a crazy idea, or am I just nuts!!!!!

[yogi]

the state gets plenty every time we go on forest roads we have to drive there that takes gas which is taxed if i break down and need repair thats taxed if i stop for food or drink thats taxed also.
dnr will not give in to anything you will have to fight for it.
they spend more of our money on comittees than anything else.what do they have to show for it???
if you want better insite talk to fred trost of the pratical sportsman on that :)

yogi