View Full Version : A One-Two Punch to the Drummond ORV Route System

October 29th, 2010, 10:45 PM
Folks, GLFWDA and the Drummond Island Off Road Club need your help!

We are in jeopardy of loosing the Drummond ORV Route System that was JUST designated this year. We need all of you to please help spread the work that WE MUST STAY ON THE DESIGNATED ROUTE SYSTEM!

Sometime on or around the weekend of September 18th and 19th some 4x4s drove sown a couple of the Island's ORV Trails smashing trees down and widening it out from its original 50" to 72". One trail in particular was a favorite of the ATV crowd because it was very tight for a quad. They are extremely unhappy that it is now ruined. The DIORC is now going to have to spend many, many man hours repairing it and thousands of dollars putting barriers up to keep 4x4s off the repaired trail.

Sometime shortly after that, C.O. Kyle Publiski caught a group of Jeeps from Ohio who had driven around the "No Motor Vehicles Beyond This Point" signs and the large boulders that were placed to block off access on Marble Head and were parked out on the top of the cliff. They were issued tickets.

Needless to say, the DNRE is now quite unhappy with the 4x4 crowd. Unhappy enough that we are starting to hear talk of closing the Route if we can't stop this type of behavior! WE MUST STOP THIS BEHAVIOR! Too many people put in too much work and too many of us REALLY enjoy the Drummond System to let a few uninformed or malicious miscreants screw it up for all of us!

Drummond is the FIRST ORV Route designated for the full-sized crowd. Because it is the first, it is being watched closely by the Department AND the greenies. If we want MORE Routes designated for us (and I know I do!), then we MUST prove to them both that we can follow the rules.




If you see a "No Motor Vehicles Beyond This Point" sign, DON'T go past it! You just might cost ALL of us our access on the Island as well as ALL FUTURE 4x4 ROUTES that we might otherwise be able to get designated!

PLEASE help us save our driving privileges!

October 30th, 2010, 08:30 AM
I have to confess this discourages the crap out of me. How does one continue to fight the ignorance of a few when we have so many that are readily standing by to reduce and or eliminate our access.

I can think of many people that have put a great deal of time and money, not to mention credibility to help put in place what we have on Drummond Island, only for a few to ignore it all for their own personal enjoyment. Their personal enjoyment will cost us all.

October 30th, 2010, 09:07 AM
I know I just posted this on Michigan wheelers... but how about seeing if the ferry opperators could hand out a flier to every 4x4 entering the island.... after all everyone has to pass thru there... even if it was one just like pat's post above... except also stating the legal consequences of their actions if they coose to go off trail... just a thought

October 30th, 2010, 09:36 AM
That is actually in the works Dusty.
We're looking into the price and logistics of having 5 signs made up.
One would be placed right where you get off the Ferry.
The other four would be put out at the four entrances to the System.

October 30th, 2010, 10:04 AM
Dumb Ohio people (and others that FAIL to obey) :banghead:
I hope their tickets are for BIG $$$$ :ahhh:

October 30th, 2010, 03:29 PM
It pisses me off that people do this kind of thing. However, it also pisses me off that the DNR is considering closing the route due to a couple idiots. LE knows that no matter how many laws are made, there will still be people who violate them. I don't know how many "incidents" there have been since the trails were designated last year, but it sounds like it's relatively few. With all the work that has gone into this whole thing, it's not like anyone is advocating this behavior. In fact, people are going out of their way to encourage staying on the trail and educating the people who don't know any better. I believe this education needs to continue, but I just don't know what the DNR expects.

October 30th, 2010, 06:18 PM
Makes me sad to hear news such as this. Hard to repair the damage on the ground and the damage done with the DNRE. When are these people gonna learn that you just CAN'T tear up our trails and woods with off road vehicles just because you're away from home and act like a jerk!!

October 30th, 2010, 08:50 PM
I remember talking about the signs at the fall quarterly, but they only do good if people stop to read them.. that's why I suggest putting a flier right in their hands when the ferry opperator takes their money... much better chance they will read it. maybe something like this.. 698

Renegade II
October 30th, 2010, 09:01 PM
It pisses me off that people do this kind of thing. However, it also pisses me off that the DNR is considering closing the route due to a couple idiots. LE knows that no matter how many laws are made, there will still be people who violate them................


People poach animals that can be legally hunted, are they going to shut down hunting?

You can use something as a reason or an excuse depending on your predisposition toward that user group.

A reason to have stricter enforcement and increased educational awareness.
Or an excuse to turn their back and say "oh well, we gave them their shot."

They should try a little LE 101 first; Saturation patrol with zero tolerance.

If you do signs or fliers, be sure to post that a reward is given for info resulting in the conviction of violators. I'd pitch in $ for that account.

October 31st, 2010, 09:33 AM
hi pat this is dan from the drummond isle jjusa group. I couldn't stand the ignorance any more and had to register here to help the cause. I hope the tickets issued were costly enough to send a message to those jeepers from ohio. were they from a club or just a group of friends out wheeling? as far as the trail modifyers. maybe we need some signs placed at major junctions and entery points with brief language describing what trail modifcations are not allowed.

November 1st, 2010, 05:32 AM
Hallo Dan!

GREAT to see you here!

I don't have any more information on the Ohio group yet. Just what was in the email from the DNRE. I'm going to call Monday morning to get more info. I'll post what I find out.

November 1st, 2010, 06:16 AM
It's more than frustrating to see this happening, actually, from both sides. Idiots will be idiots in every sport/hobby. As Renegade II said, we don't see the DNRE closing down hunting because people poach. We need some common sense here.

November 1st, 2010, 07:39 PM
It only takes a few idiots to ruin it for all! Handing out a flyer on the ferry might be helpful and it could be done with minimal cost.

November 2nd, 2010, 10:27 AM
the cost could be minimized by making the half page fliers... with just enough info so they have been informed.. also pointing out that there are signs posted at the entrances to the trail, and at the ferry..... of course those are still in the works..

November 2nd, 2010, 12:56 PM
Hey Pat,
I asked what I could do to help - over on another website - and you said membership.

Here I am. :D

Renegade II
November 2nd, 2010, 03:32 PM

November 2nd, 2010, 04:56 PM
Hey Pat,
I asked what I could do to help - over on another website - and you said membership.

Here I am. :D


November 3rd, 2010, 12:49 AM
Hey Pat,
I asked what I could do to help - over on another website - and you said membership.

Here I am. :D


THANK YOU Scooter!

Nice to know SOMEONE listens!

November 3rd, 2010, 12:49 AM

Actually the Route would ahve all 3 next to it.

Renegade II
November 3rd, 2010, 01:16 PM
Actually the Route would have all 3 next to it.

They are there, you just can't see them cause' the Jeep ran em' over :lmao:

November 3rd, 2010, 04:58 PM
Damn Jeepers! :lmao:

Renegade II
November 5th, 2010, 09:51 PM
To be politically correct....


November 10th, 2010, 08:42 PM
I'll print a ream worth of fliers and ship them off to DIORC if someone could post a copy of it.

November 10th, 2010, 08:57 PM
That's awfully nice of you, but we'd first need to gain the support and willingness of the Ferry owner and operators to do this. Signage sounds like it would be a LOT easier to get permission to do.

November 12th, 2010, 07:38 AM
I woulda have no problem with them impounding vehicles/quads/sleds on 2nd offenses on such matters. Huge fines too. The state is crying they don't have enough $$ anyway. Don't they impound if you are caught "bogging" in a marsh or wetland? Sometimes its the oly way to get through to the ignorant and/or stupid.

Ridin Dirty
November 12th, 2010, 10:38 AM
Have the ferry owners/ operators been contacted and asked if they'd be willing to hand them out?

November 12th, 2010, 06:42 PM
I do not believe the DNR has the authority to impound vehicles.

Renegade II
November 12th, 2010, 08:38 PM
I do not believe the DNR has the authority to impound vehicles.

They do, as well as forfeit the vehicle depending on the offense. It's just way less work to write the misdemeanor summons and move on.

November 12th, 2010, 08:58 PM
I'm not in favor of impounding. I believe this could be abused and getting an impounded vehicle returned could cost a fortune, even for the innocent. I'm much more in favor of due process.

November 13th, 2010, 03:55 AM
I'm not in favor of impounding. I believe this could be abused and getting an impounded vehicle returned could cost a fortune, even for the innocent. I'm much more in favor of due process.

The innocent won't have their vehicle impounded. Due process is still followed as well even with an impound. It's not exactly a punishment, but rather a guarantee that the offense will not continue. For those that are blatantly ignoring the signs, such as on Marblehead, even if they get a ticket I doubt they would really be too worried about then going onto a trail they shouldn't be.

Also, impounded is a discretionary thing. In other words, the officer could make the decision based on if the offender was ignorant to the law or just plain didn't care. I'm all for impounding. Why? Cause F*** Em!

November 17th, 2010, 01:52 AM
Found this thread, been around here a while & this prodded me into joining up....I LOVE Drummond Island, and would confront anyone I saw abusing the newest trail designations. Keep it real, keep it safe, keep it ours to enjoy & protect.

I'd rather be lost on Drummond Island than found on the Mainland!

November 17th, 2010, 10:17 AM

Okay, with a screen name of MIHummer, our paths have had to cross...

November 18th, 2010, 08:04 PM
Hey Bob, it's Cris Burkhalter, our paths have crossed many times! Thanks for all your hard work here.

November 19th, 2010, 10:49 AM
Good to hear from you Chris, our paths haven't crossed much of late (work, work and more work).

New Truck, like that as well.

November 26th, 2010, 02:21 PM
That is discouraging. I went to Drummond Island for the first time in August, 2009 with my two boys, my brother, and two friends. We had four Jeeps in our group and had a great time. It was nice to be able to hit some trails that were a little more challenging than two-tracks for a change. Not too many of those in these parts, so losing access to the Drummond ORV Route (or any other route) would be a huge losss. I will post a link to this on the Michigan Jeeps Facebook group to remind everyone to stay on the trail and spread the word to others to do the same. http://www.facebook.com/pages/Jeeperz-Creeperz-Inc/91272842732#!/group.php?gid=131442833959&v=wall

p.s. I am now a paid member.

November 27th, 2010, 12:08 AM
Anyone who knows me knows how I feel about this, and also knows that I go out of my way to "preach the gospel" about staying legal.

Even had a discussion with a salesman at my local dealer (who has a built TJ and likes DI) earlier today about all of the work that went into the DI route and the necessity of playing nice there!

But...from what I've heard (and it may be incorrect), the group from Ohio that was ticketed on Marblehead was NOT the group that widened the ORV trail. I heard that it was a few members of a well-known Michigan club.

Anyone wanna touch that one????


November 27th, 2010, 04:29 AM
Maybe it's me, but I realy want to know who that club was...

November 27th, 2010, 10:54 AM
A lot of the ideas about fliers are good, but the folks breaking the law will throw them out the window when they exit the ferry. I would suggest hiring folks on the island to patrol during the busy times to help ID the people. I know there are legal issues, etc. but you need to start catching folks in the act, taking pictures, and then getting the DNR COs involved. Many pairs of eyes are better then one.

Has anyone talked to the COs to find out how a citizen group can participate and what type of evidence is needed to convict. If folks are aware they are being watched it helps reduce the stupid acts. WATVA has been successful doing this.

My 2


November 27th, 2010, 11:07 AM
For Dave's suggestion above:


Might be a GREAT opportunity for GLFWDA/MI Wheelers to actively establish and recruit VTP group for DI.

November 27th, 2010, 11:33 AM
...the group from Ohio that was ticketed on Marblehead was NOT the group that widened the ORV trail...

I can confirm that two different and seperate groups were involved. I am not aware the second was or was not a well known Michigan based group.

November 27th, 2010, 04:46 PM
There is no evidence that a local Club was involved in the damage to trail 25A-26A.

December 2nd, 2010, 10:16 AM
The info that I had was NOT that it was a "local" club, but rather members of a well-established Michigan club. I was told that some of the participants began the trail damage, and some of them knew it was wrong and turned around and left.

I'm not pointing any fingers or naming any club names, just trying to find out if anyone else had heard this. If it's true, it sure is disappointing!