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Jarhead
July 20th, 2010, 03:43 PM
You may have heard of Dr. Charles M. Nelson, Associate Professor from Michigan State University and his long time involvement in data collection for use by the Michigan DNR(E).

Well he has completed the study of the last several years. You can visit the web site at http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/ORV2010ReportFinal_327707_7.pdf or download the attached PDF (62 pages).

sumpter1
July 21st, 2010, 07:40 AM
Thanks for posting this!

Rocky
July 27th, 2010, 03:49 PM
Thank Bob.

Trail_Fanatic
July 27th, 2010, 11:45 PM
I realize the purpose of this study was to take a look at use of the designated system but IMHO, the studies data collection for 4x4s was flawed as a GREAT deal of our recreation occurs off the system on CRC easements and private property. It would be nice to find out just how much 4x4 activity really takes place in Michigan.

Jarhead
July 28th, 2010, 01:02 PM
I realize the purpose of this study was to take a look at use of the designated system but IMHO, the studies data collection for 4x4s was flawed as a GREAT deal of our recreation occurs off the system on CRC easements and private property. It would be nice to find out just how much 4x4 activity really takes place in Michigan.

There are comments within the study that support, "the studies data collection for 4x4s was flawed". Comments go to the fact that people being surveyed felt they did not properly represent what they called a "regular user".

Rocky
August 10th, 2010, 03:29 AM
Michigan has well over 200.000 Registered ORV users, but Nelsons survey only seeks his survey answers from less than 1% of this group. IMO, any survey like this has got to be flawed.

Yet the DNRE pay out BIG BUCKS from ORV user fee's to pay for this kind of flawed information.

phittie1100
August 12th, 2010, 02:58 AM
Statistical analysis can be very accurate from a very small sample if the method of choosing the sample is scientifically based. What Dr Nelson and his team bring to the table is years of experience at conducting these types of surveys, and choosing questions and samples that will give them the most accurate results. He notes in his report that that the sampling is only done from folks who pay for an ORV sticker, but that is a parameter set by the funding of the survey. It would cost a boatload of cash to send those surveys to random households in Michigan and hope you get enough users who do not purchase MI ORV licenses to produce a meaningful sample, and provide some additional insight into who the ORV users are and what they want.

Rocky
August 13th, 2010, 02:22 AM
Statistical analysis can be very accurate from a very small sample if the method of choosing the sample is scientifically based. What Dr Nelson and his team bring to the table is years of experience at conducting these types of surveys, and choosing questions and samples that will give them the most accurate results. He notes in his report that that the sampling is only done from folks who pay for an ORV sticker, but that is a parameter set by the funding of the survey. It would cost a boatload of cash to send those surveys to random households in Michigan and hope you get enough users who do not purchase MI ORV licenses to produce a meaningful sample, and provide some additional insight into who the ORV users are and what they want.

I understand what your saying, I just dont buy into it's method of accuracy just yet. IMO, any statistic that uses less than 1% of its total user base, cannot be scientifically balanced. Its just my opinion and I'll listen to anybody who wants to try and explain it's accuracy,but so far, nobody has convinced me yet.Im not saying that your statements cant be true, I just dont buy into them yet. It would be foolish for Nelson to send the surveys to those folks who are not registered ORV users, defeats the purpose of the survey.Nelson and his team got paid big $$ for this survey too.

Further,the DNRE and sound science or sound scientific management dont alwyas go hand/hand.

One needs to look no further than the DNRE finding ONE penned-up deer with CWD in Kent County, and therefore making a decision to ban baiting in the lower Pennisula of Michigan,all based on the scientific research done on one captive,penned up deer.

Since this banning almost 3 years ago, not one single case of CWD has been found in Michigan's wild deer population,yet the baiting ban still applies in the LP of Michigan.

Yep, sound,scientic research and management at its best. All @ the hands of the DNRE.

Rocky
August 13th, 2010, 03:13 AM
Also,
I must add that the comments the various user's make at the end of Dr Nelsons survey, sure concede with what I've been hearing since 1999 from many of my parents [ students ] too.

*Poorly maintained trails
*Poorly maintained trails
*Poorly maintained trails
*Horrible Signage
*Arrogant Law Enforcement Officers
*Restrictions for youth on ATV's


And, oh yah,

*Poorly maintained trails

And now, Lansing wants even more of your $$..