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joe_jeep
January 21st, 2006, 06:20 PM
i got a 97 tj dana 30 and dana 35 / i also have a hi pinion dana 44 front and a ford nine inch from a 79 bronco. i wanna put the bronco axles in the tj. rubicon express has bracket kits to do so, bout 399 per axle. what is it worth to do the fab and welding to install? how much should i spend? and who would be best to do it? the dana 35 has a super 35 kit with a detroit works great, dana 30 has detroit e-z locker. both are 4.56 gears, new unit bearings and new u joints on front, good brakes all around. all timkin bearings all around. are these axles worth anthing to anyone? what should i get for them if i sell them? any ideas would be helpfull, thx alot

JohnnyJ
January 22nd, 2006, 12:34 PM
With RE products, the best prices are generally found with their vendors.

Currie wants $450 per axle for the brackets including installation when you buy an axle from them (per their web site). They have the benefit of working on a clean housing with no surprises.

As for your 79 bronco front axle, you should read Mr.N's article (http://77cj.littlekeylime.com/Dana44_2.htm). It may sway you to switch to bronco style front suspension. Or you may have to have the one side cut and re-tubed. (I believe Lucas went bronco suspension up front if I remember correctly)

http://77cj.littlekeylime.com/images/dana44/dana4478-79axle_cut.jpg

As for the axles, I sold my TJ D30/D44 with similar setup for about $1500. The D35 may not bring in as much, but since it's 'super' it might be similar.

Creative Fab
January 22nd, 2006, 12:48 PM
If your interested I can get you a price on the RE bracket kit, probably the lowest price you will find. Cant advertise price. E-mail me at Ironmanoffroad@charter.net

I normally charge $100 an axle to weld them on. But since your front is out of a 79 you have the issue that Johny J pointed out. You would have to use the Ford Radius arm style for the front or modify it by having it retubed.


Pat

joe_jeep
January 22nd, 2006, 04:42 PM
i was thinking of having it narrowed to tj width? so retubing would be an option. any idea on retube price(ballpark figure) who will retube near detroit, d.t.s? if i narrowed the factory tube to tj width would i remove the bad part of the tube? wanna use the factory ford c's hubs brakes! or if retubed would i need new c's. i read the tech article hope im understanding it correctly. thx for all the help. wizard from m.s.g. said he would install the bracket kit if i needed it done. is this tube problem comonly known about? thx again guys, big help

Creative Fab
January 22nd, 2006, 06:19 PM
I am not sure if DTS has a press big enough to remove the old tube and press the new tube back in, you would have to call them to find out.

joe_jeep
January 23rd, 2006, 10:36 AM
i sent dts an e-mail about a retube job waiting for reply, if i dont get one ill call them. but i work nights and usually sleeping during buisness hours. have to get up early! any one else retube axles in s.e. michigan?? kinda leanin towards tj width now instead of bronco width. thx for all the input

joe_jeep
January 24th, 2006, 08:44 AM
nope dts dont do retubes. but they gave me a number to call, told me to tell em they sent me. think its out state 765 area code? hope its in ohio or pennsylvania i could load it on my semi and do it on the clock lol

lgottler
January 29th, 2006, 09:36 AM
I use a Ford '79 Bronco D44 in my TJ. I left mine full width, didn't change anything on the axle, so I can use stock spare parts to repair or replace it with. I went a little further with mine thou, I swapped in the outer steering knuckle and brakes and hubs from a 79 F250, so I have an 8 lug front axle with a dual piston caliper.

I kept the radius arm mounts to use as my suspension setup. The distance the radius arm drops below the axle compared to the stock TJ stuff is significant, I saved well over an inch, maybe two of clearance there. I outboarded the upper spring perches by about 2" (hindsight says I should have done about 2.5") each side and then it lines right up with the stock axle spring pockets. The shock locations line right up, I didn't have to change anything there.

I moved the axle forward about 1", so I could use my stock driveshaft which still bolts right up, only change I made there was to notch my belly skid a bit so I could get a little more droop without the DS hitting.

Trackbar mount remained the same. I still need to make a better one eventually, but all I did was cut the stock one in half and the factory Ford one in half and sleeve it and weld it all together.

I cut the stock radius arm down to about 12" from the C and made a new arm, extending it about 12 or 15" past the stock one, I also bent it up toward the frame to get the axle in the correct geometry while keeping the mount as high as I could. I used stock TJ rubber bushings for the frame side and stock ford rubber on the C. I guess its kinda like the RE long arm kit that was designed like a radius arm setup. The frame mount is in about the same spot and its a radius arm.....

Even though I'm running "FULL WIDTH" axles (d44 front d60 rear), I don't think I'm wider than some TJ's! I put H1 double beadlocks on mine and recentered them to 5 or 5.5" bs (can't remember) just barely cleared the front caliper. But with that rim set in that far, my tires stick out only about an inch or two wider each side than my old tires did. If you put 3" bs on some wide rims and tires, I'd say your about the same width as I am!

There are some older axles that had the C welded on that can be cut off. F150s had 5 on 5.5 front axle D44's with just spring perches I believe, wider? I don't know! I didn't research much on my axle, cuz I wanted the radius arm mounts!! Pirate4x4 has some really good articles for D44 searching...

Good luck!

Lucas

joe_jeep
January 30th, 2006, 11:35 AM
greta ideas thx for the input. will it flex much with the radius arm type suspension. i had an older bronco and mine didnt flex at all? if i have to retube i wil narrow to tj width, if i dont retube im gona stay full width. i understand about the cast piece on the tube, ut i dont understand why i cant make the brackets fit as is,mabey grind em a little or notch them. i could do what u did i took the radius arms,all the tie rod. is it that u just cant weld to cast metal well?? bronco srings would ride like a tank so im assuming u used tj springs? i hate to change the set up i got. i got new re super flex arms and track bars all around. still thinkin bout what to do??? no rush though,thx

lgottler
January 30th, 2006, 12:36 PM
The only thing limiting my flex now are my shocks. I also have a problem with my spring unseating because of the flex on the front. I need to bolt down the bottom of it so I don't have that issue anymore.

Good luck!

Lucas

Roadhouse
January 30th, 2006, 12:44 PM
The ford type radius arms will flex if modified. Make it longer than stock, use rubber c-bushing instead of poly, and try to use a Johnny Joint or Heim at the frame end. It wont flex like a RE radius arm setup, but it does flex better than the stock bronco style.

Here is what I would like to do with to my ZJ, when Ironman builds it. I have 79 Bronco axles going under it, so I'm stuck with using a radius arms set up also.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v654/Roadhouse66/buggy0058ha.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v654/Roadhouse66/dddd9tz.jpg

Here are a few other modified ford radius arms, some are on XJ's.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v654/Roadhouse66/Our%2095%20Jeep%20ZJ/836581_23_full.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v654/Roadhouse66/Our%2095%20Jeep%20ZJ/1xytxk.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v654/Roadhouse66/Our%2095%20Jeep%20ZJ/IM005363.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v654/Roadhouse66/Our%2095%20Jeep%20ZJ/scan2a.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v654/Roadhouse66/Our%2095%20Jeep%20ZJ/radiusarms.jpg


Here is a wristed radius arm setup. Just the passenger side arm is wristed to relieve some of the binding on the axle tubes whenl flexing. When off road the owner pulls that hitch pin and the arm can flex at that wrist or pivot point. I don't think I'll go through the hassle of that setup, as I'm not worried about max flex and binding. Just thought I would give ya a pic of another option. This is under a ZJ. I know lots of XJ owners at www.naxja.org have done this setup, in one form or another.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v654/Roadhouse66/Our%2095%20Jeep%20ZJ/wristedradiusarms.jpg

Here is lgottlers arms on his TJ
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v654/Roadhouse66/Our%2095%20Jeep%20ZJ/IM000010.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v654/Roadhouse66/Our%2095%20Jeep%20ZJ/IM000008.jpg

If you leave the axle full with you need to do something about coil buckets like Lucas said. You can change the top coil bucket like Lucas did or change the bottom like this
before:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v654/Roadhouse66/Our%2095%20Jeep%20ZJ/39006387.jpg
after:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v654/Roadhouse66/Our%2095%20Jeep%20ZJ/modifiedcoilbuckets.jpg

I have not looked at any of these setups on a TJ, besides Lucas'....what I have searched has been on XJ's and ZJ's. The Bronco axles are about 5" wider than your stock axles...not all the bad if you think about it. 2.5" wider per side. 3/4 tons would be about 7" wider than stock TJ. Just try to get wheel with a 4"-5" backspacing and it wont look bad. It looks bad when people run 2.5"-3.5" backspacing.

Here is full width bronco axles on a ZJ. He is running 36x12.5 Swamper Radials on 15x8 4" backspacing wheels
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v654/Roadhouse66/Our%2095%20Jeep%20ZJ/IM005562.jpg

good luck, and happy building.
Mike

joe_jeep
January 31st, 2006, 10:04 AM
thx alot for the pics. some great ideas. and i wnna stay full width for sure now. that zj looked sweet. probably cheaper to go radius arms than buying re bracket kits??? hmmmm

Roadhouse
January 31st, 2006, 10:15 AM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(joe_jeep &#064; Jan 31 2006, 09&#58;04 AM) 9312</div>

thx alot for the pics. some great ideas. and i wnna stay full width for sure now. that zj looked sweet. probably cheaper to go radius arms than buying re bracket kits??? hmmmm
[/b]


ya it would be cheaper. you could still do the RE brackets on the 9", but they wont fit the d44 because of the radius arm mounts unless you had it retubed like you talked about.

I&#39;m hoping by May if &#036;&#036; goes right to have Ironman start on my ZJ. I&#39;ll post pics of the build up as it goes. If I don&#39;t post pics, I&#39;m sure Pat will.

joe_jeep
February 1st, 2006, 10:52 AM
cant wait to see the pics&#33; whats the plan for the zj??

Roadhouse
February 10th, 2006, 01:36 PM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(joe_jeep &#064; Feb 1 2006, 09&#58;52 AM) 9428</div>

cant wait to see the pics&#33; whats the plan for the zj??
[/b]

Hey Frank, for the ZJ basically what that green one looks like up above. Still don&#39;t know what size tires I will run yet.

joe_jeep
February 11th, 2006, 01:25 AM
who would be best to adapt the radius arms for me, i dont trust my weling skills? i would want a heim jointed frame end for a little more flex. any guys on here do stuff like that, i no its kinda odd work and some guys might not wanna do it. i decided to leave the axles full width. radius arm setup in front. and re bracket kit for rear. got most of the parts from the old front end, need to buy 5.5in re springs front and rear, and shocks all around, and the rear bracket kit . im running 4in superlift springs and shocks now and dont like em much, super stiff&#33; thanks alot for all the ideas and pics, was against the idea of radius arms but i think its gonna work well. any ideas on a fab guy would be helpfull, thx again&#33; will have axles and suspension lit for sale cheap after the swap if anybody needs em.

that green zj looks sweet roadhouse, hope yours comes out as nice, dont forget the pics&#33;

Roadhouse
February 11th, 2006, 01:59 AM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(joe_jeep &#064; Feb 11 2006, 12&#58;25 AM) 10079</div>

who would be best to adapt the radius arms for me, i dont trust my weling skills? i would want a heim jointed frame end for a little more flex. any guys on here do stuff like that, i no its kinda odd work and some guys might not wanna do it. i decided to leave the axles full width. radius arm setup in front. and re bracket kit for rear. got most of the parts from the old front end, need to buy 5.5in re springs front and rear, and shocks all around, and the rear bracket kit . im running 4in superlift springs and shocks now and dont like em much, super stiff&#33; thanks alot for all the ideas and pics, was against the idea of radius arms but i think its gonna work well. any ideas on a fab guy would be helpfull, thx again&#33; will have axles and suspension lit for sale cheap after the swap if anybody needs em.

that green zj looks sweet roadhouse, hope yours comes out as nice, dont forget the pics&#33;
[/b]


Frank, contack Ironman aka Pat. Even if you are gonna do most of the work, but just need some odds and end welding I&#39;m sure Pat can help ya out for a good price.

joe_jeep
February 11th, 2006, 10:37 PM
thx for the advice ill do that. gotta get those arms off the axle now, bolts seem to like being on there, dont wanna budge lol b.f.h.

lgottler
February 12th, 2006, 10:55 AM
Watch the height of the front springs. If you keep the stock coil mount points on the front, you get about 2+ inches of additional lift with the same spring. I&#39;m using 3" lift springs in the front end of mine, it will clear my 36&#39;s with a little bumpstop extension so I don&#39;t smash my fenders (or chew up my tires).

http://www.glfwda.org/forums/uploads/1139622819/gallery_25_25_87037.jpg

I know your using a ZJ for your work, but this is sitting with 3" lift springs on 36" tires with the D44 front end. I would guess that total lift was about 5-6" using 3" lift coils.

Lucas

joe_jeep
February 12th, 2006, 06:13 PM
thx for that advice, i got 4in springs now thy are a little stiff. i wanna run 14.5/38.5/15 swamper sx&#39;s mabey my 4in springs would work. im gonna have to lengthen bump stops for sure. i have a 2in body lift also, and dont mind hackin some sheet metal. so mabey ill wait on the springs and see how it looks on 4in springs. might get a little better with some softer shocks also. have superlift springs and shocks and all re arms and track bars. what u use for a sway bar?? front only?? that tj looks awesome great job&#33;&#33;&#33;

Roadhouse
February 13th, 2006, 11:28 AM
Lucas thanks for the advice. I think I&#39;m going to put 4.5" spring in the front, so that should get me 7.5" of lift with them mounted on top of the radias arms. I will take my current front 3.5" springs and mount them in the rear, that should also be about 7.5" of lift.

joe_jeep
February 21st, 2006, 06:39 PM
another club member is doing the same swap and asking alot of the same questions, so im bumping this post to top of page. thx